20-Year-Old Activist Redefines Purpose & Resilience | Inspired Men Talk with Innes Morgan
Welcome to Inspired Mentor. Four solution focused therapists born in four different decades who openly and honestly discuss their perspectives on the issues surrounding men's mental health and the things that stigma says we don't talk about.
Peter Ely:Hello, and welcome to another episode of Inspired Men Talk. My name is Peter Ealy. I'm a solution focused hypnotherapist, and I help people with fears and phobias and looking after their self care. And with me as always is Ben Baker Pollard. Good morning, Ben.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Throw me off, Pete. You don't normally come to me first.
Peter Ely:It's not true. Yeah.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Easy. Good morning, everyone. I'm Ben Baker Pollard. I'm a solution focused hypnotherapist as well. I'm also a policeman, and, yeah, I do hopefully bring different perspectives with my experience from different walks in life.
Peter Ely:Fantastic. Thank you, Ben. And, Gary, I've given you a bit more time. Good morning, Gary.
Gary Joahannes:Good morning. And I'm also a solution focused hypnotherapist. I'm a solution focused practitioner and trainer. And I guess my perspective is coming from the older generation. So, hopefully, I'm not gonna look too old, but I might bring a different perspective.
Gary Joahannes:And, you know, it's all about the fun of it. So let's go.
Peter Ely:Thank you very much, Gary. And today, we have another fantastic guest, a really amazing, interesting individual. I'm gonna jump straight in and say hello. Good morning, Ines Morgan.
Innes Morgan:Good morning, Peter. Thank you so much to yourself, Gary, Ben, and all of your listeners for having me on today.
Peter Ely:Not a problem. Thank you for joining us. And so, Ines, what we'd like to do at the beginning of each podcast is get you to tell us a little bit about yourself. So would you be kind enough to introduce yourself to the the listeners and to us and tell us a bit about yourself?
Innes Morgan:Okay. Yeah. Of course. I'll try and keep it short and sweet, but no promises there. So, yeah, I my name is Ines Morgan.
Innes Morgan:I am a young person, so I'm only 20 years old. And I come from Dunnet Head, and I'm not sure if that's a place many of you or Gary, Peter, Ben, if you're familiar with. No. No. We're near John And Gross and we are actually mainly Britain's most northerly point.
Innes Morgan:My favorite statistic with that is that we are closer to the International Space Station than we are to Edinburgh and to London, the big urban cities in The UK. For context, it is an incredibly remote and rural community. If I want to get a Big Mac from McDonald's, that's a three hour drive to the OneMain, so a six hour round trip. I suppose living in such a yeah. I know.
Innes Morgan:I can I can see your face there? For those listening, Peter is looking rather shocked. I think it's it's interesting because I don't think many people, and, again, you know, I would ask you three, realize that there's places on The UK Mainland that are so remote.
Peter Ely:When when you tell me that the very first time, that blew me away. I mean, I'm born in London, raised in London, and, you know, I got in three hours, I can probably go to, like, 30 McDonald's, right, walking. So that that kind of blew me away. I never realized that McDonald's just was that didn't didn't go that far up. Right?
Benn Baker-Pollard:I was thinking about Uber Eats driver on his on his push bike.
Innes Morgan:I know. I have to say it's very cold by the time it reaches my house. But, yeah, it's it I think that's sort of where my story begins is I grew up and live in this very remote community that's often, I guess, underrepresented and unseen within both decision making and just The UK as the country in general. Within my community, it's very interesting because you can imagine it's very fragile. The population is quite small and there's all sorts of pressures on it.
Innes Morgan:But the majority of people work in the nuclear industry because I think in the fifties and, you know, nineteen sixties, the UK government decided that they were going to plonk two nuclear reactors or two nuclear sites up in the Far North, far away from everyone in London. So if anything went wrong, they would all be safe. But as a result of that, the vast majority of the population, the whole economy is reliant on the nuclear industry, and that is an industry that is in decline. And it is something that, you know, growing up in my youth, I was very aware of. I would see family and friends leave my community moving hundreds of miles away to never come back.
Innes Morgan:I saw the local primary school shut. We saw, you know, some of the highest levels of depopulation not only within The UK but actually within Europe. You know, we're talking about losing over 20% of the population within twenty years, which is crazy. And so I was in school, primary school kid, and I felt that this was quite unjust. I felt on a personal level, it it was unfair that my family and friends were leaving.
Innes Morgan:It was unfair that I might have to move away, and it was really unfair that I didn't have access to the opportunities that other people did. You know, basic services like going to an orthodontist, get your braces. You know, you you didn't have that. You would have to travel the three, six hours away to access these things. And so I think I often trace the start of my journey back to then when I was in school.
Innes Morgan:And I'd say I felt very scared because, you know, everything I knew up until that point, my whole community, my whole life, it felt like it was under threat, and it was in jeopardy. And I knew that when I reached the end of school, I would have to move away because there was a lack of opportunities, a lack of jobs, and a lack of avenues for young people like me. And that that was really scary. And, yeah, I think as a starting point, I was probably, you know, maybe seven, eight years old in primary school, and I did what I think all rational people would do. And I wrote a very angry letter to all of my local counselors, and I summoned them to coffee at my house.
Innes Morgan:And I think the first mistake was probably writing a very angry letter. The second mistake was the fact I didn't tell my parents until all these counselors arrived. And I think that's and that's a great anecdote because it perhaps, you know, summarizes maybe my, yeah, I don't know, my my approach to all of this in the early days. It was quite sort of lackluster, just sort of, like, you know, knock you on any door I could to try and get an answer and to try and sort of, like, question people in authority about this issue. And what I what I realized as a result of that encounter was that, you know, perhaps I should take a kinder tone and be more collaborative, but perhaps also I should tell my parents before I do these things.
Innes Morgan:But what I also realized as well is that it wasn't these local counselors to blame these issues, But, actually, it was a much more systemic question. It was much more about how does government, how does industry respond to the needs of communities and places that you know, they don't have to be rural ones like mine that are, you know, hundreds of miles away from sort of decision makers in London or Edinburgh. But, actually, they can be communities that are, you know, right in the shadows of Westminster that, you know, are more urban as well. And so, yeah, that's kind of kick started this really weird, fascinating journey. I suppose long story short, sort of in my primary school and high school years, I did all sorts of weird and wacky things from working on economic development bids, trying to drive sort of inward investment into communities, working with, like, nuclear developers and, you know, renewable companies, to working on sort of policy making at an international level looking at the North Sea region and how we can improve transportability and all these things, to working on developing the Ruled Island Youth Parliament in Scotland which is part of the Scottish rural Ireland Parliament, which is I think, definitely probably within Scotland, the largest grassroots sort of political assembly.
Innes Morgan:So we bring together hundreds of people from across communities in Scotland, and we connect them to, you know, decision makers, including, you know, the first minister, the Scottish government, NGOs, and sort of all sorts of stakeholders within policy making to try and drive change change and link the the grassroots to the macro if you like and actually ensure better representation of people and communities. I've, you know, yeah, done all sorts of weird things. I suppose the reason I'm here today is probably because at the end of high school, I started reflecting and thinking about all of the things I'd been exposed to, I just questioned what actually, you know, leads to social change within a particular community like mine or within even an organization. You know, what is that tipping point that, you know, builds critical mass and actually enables positive outcomes and brings people together? And I thought about it for a while and had lots of ideas, but I I tried to kind of simplify it into one word, which is purpose.
Innes Morgan:And when I say purpose to sort of when I, you know, sell that anecdote to people, they often kind of look at me, like, puzzled and think that I'm, like, trying to preach like a management consultant and say, you know, we we need more purpose. We need to sort of synergize things and, you know, you know, bring together the outputs and yada yada yada. But to me, it's not about that. It's more about how do you as an individual understand your place within, you know, your community, your organization? You know, what is what piece do you play within that wider societal jigsaw?
Innes Morgan:And then for organizations, it's exactly the same question. How can organizations positively contribute to society? What are the capabilities they have that can provide real positive value within communities and lead to sort of change. How do we link all of these things together? How do we link up organizations to communities?
Innes Morgan:How do we link up individuals to the organizations they work in? And so, yeah, got to the end of high school, had this realization, and thought, you know what? I'm gonna do something about it. Or, well, I tried to do something about it. And so I created this nonprofit called Act With Purpose.
Innes Morgan:And effectively, we are trying to promote this agenda. We work within sort of government and industry and also communities to think about how organizations and their leaders can become more purpose driven. Though we've done work with the likes of the cabinet office, you know, we've engaged with tons of companies. I think to date, we've probably engaged 50 plus companies and reached, you know, thousands of people. And Lou Swain, who is the founder and managing director of this fantastic agency in London called HUG, their media agency, I reached out to him in the very early days of this project.
Innes Morgan:I didn't know him. I'd heard of him because of his great work, and I asked him for help. I said to him, look. I haven't got a budget. And when I mean I don't have a budget, I mean, I have no money.
Innes Morgan:Can you please help me? And he very kindly did, and he's, you know, been instrumental in sort of creating a brand, creating my identity, and helping kind of bring my vision to life. And it was Lou who very kindly introduced me to yourself, Peter, and I guess that is why I'm here today. So, yeah, fast forward to that. I'm running out of practice.
Innes Morgan:I'm a student down in Cambridge, which feels very strange coming from somewhere so far north. I do a ton of other, again, weird and wacky things. You know, I sit on the board of a eating disorder charity in Scotland. I sit on a ministerial steering group under the Scottish government, regional sort of tourism group. Yeah.
Innes Morgan:So got my fingers in lots of pies as they say. But, yeah, I guess that's the the summary. I appreciate it. I've probably taken about twenty minutes to say that, but there you go.
Peter Ely:No. That's fantastic. Thank you very much. I I don't know about the other two gents, but I feel very inadequate now. Right?
Peter Ely:At at twenty, I kind of was sitting in a pub having a beer. I'd never even heard of who my cabinet minister was. So
Innes Morgan:I do that too. Don't worry.
Gary Joahannes:It's amazing because, again, I mean, most of us are city centric in different ways. I come from South London originally, although I'm now near to where you are. But, like, Peter, you know, if I want something, I literally walk out the door and I get it. And we talk about I work a lot in the same building. It's like, oh, they have to get twenty minutes to get a pot of milk, and that's a big thing.
Gary Joahannes:You know? So what you what you sort of used to is a different to population. So I can see where that even anger from what you saw had, but being so young to do it But what fascinates me is you you're at Cambridge University. How did you fit in being able to do GSSCs and a levels and qualified to get into such a prestigious university as well as do all that other stuff. You know, most teenagers are focused on one or two things, and that was hard work for them.
Gary Joahannes:You're going, I'm gonna qualify to go to one of the leading universities in the world while I'm still going to be aggravating anybody who I can pin down and listen about their inadequacies. I'm not sure whether I'm a little bit intimidated by what you've done or massively inspired.
Innes Morgan:Yeah. Thank you. It's it's an interesting point. I think I definitely would say I'm relentless on the advocacy, the campaigning front. You know, to give you I've talked about the counselor story, but to give you the one, I lived in London last year.
Innes Morgan:I was sort of the gap year after school, and I was doing some work in parliament. And the one of the most senior civil servants on the in the country who was leading a department in government, he got on the same trip stop as me. He must I don't happen to live near where I was living. And whenever I would see him, I think he probably hated my guts because I would always I think pastor is probably the wrong word, but I would always go and try and spark a conversation with him. I'd talk about sort of the issues of today from sort of the people I was speaking to and things.
Innes Morgan:But, yeah, it's a, I mean, it's a really kind thing for you to say and comment on. And I think they probably because if I didn't do well in school, I wouldn't have this opportunity here. And I think I'm, in a sense, fighting for more opportunities from, like, the younger version of myself and more kind of roots and avenues I could have taken. But I think I almost see coming here to Cambridge and sort of, you know, working hard in school as being part of that journey, as being part of, like, trying to gain more opportunity. It's it sounds kind of weird, but almost to gain more opportunities for myself to then be able to talk about the things that matter to me and the other people that I speak to and who are also on this journey with me.
Innes Morgan:I don't know if that makes sense, but it's yeah. It's a bit kind of I never thought about it in that way before.
Peter Ely:Cool. So I wanna take you back a little bit if I may. Number one, how did mom and dad react when all of those counselors turned up? Because I know my nan would've just beaten me and then made them a cup of tea. How did mom and dad react to it?
Innes Morgan:So I think I will be honest. It was a bit of shock horror, but they kind of expected that sort of thing for me. So it's probably worth contextualizing this with the this is yeah. Probably doesn't paint me in a great light, but we I used to have this obsession with ferries. I don't know.
Innes Morgan:I was just like a young kid. I love ferries. And, obviously, living sort of in the North Coast, we got the Orkney Islands and stuff, and there's ferries that go to and fro. And there's always, I guess, in I don't know. Probably, in all of my living memory, there's been an issue with ferries in Scotland.
Innes Morgan:You know, there's a famous scandal going on just or an infamous scandal going
Gary Joahannes:on. Can we just clarify, because with your wonderful accent, you mean boats?
Innes Morgan:Yes. Sorry. Yeah. Not fairies. It sounds like you're saying
Peter Ely:fairies when you're talking about it.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I'm like, fairies? Where do fairies come into?
Innes Morgan:You know that's
Gary Joahannes:Yeah. With that too because we you know, whatever. But I just wanted to clarify for the you mean a boat.
Innes Morgan:Yeah. You probably thought I was absolutely nuts there. Yeah. I sorry. I mean, berries.
Innes Morgan:Berry. I yeah. I oh, yeah. Fairies is in the boat, not the I would say, mythical creatures. I don't know if that will offend anyone.
Innes Morgan:Hopefully, you've got any you've not got too many younger listeners. But yeah. So I had this sort of weird obsession with fairies, and the government weren't doing or the people sort of running them weren't doing a very good job by that time, and they continued to fail. You'll see famously, sort of, infamously, rather, in Scotland. It's a big issue.
Innes Morgan:And so there was I think there was a the government put out this notice, and they were inviting people to bid to run the ferries. And I went on to my parents' eBay account, and I put in a bid for a yacht. And it I I can't remember how much the yacht was, but it was quite expensive. And they had to obviously cancel or pull out the bid. I don't know.
Innes Morgan:But that sort of again, I was kind of prone to doing things that were a little bit wacky. So I guess in this case, they were happy that no finances were involved. As much as they did have some counsel they had a counselor or two at the door who were a little bit confused, there was no monetary kind of exchange there. So they were they were, I mean, not best pleased, but they they got over it. And they've been enormously supportive over the years, but I think they're, sadly, probably adjusted to this this reality.
Innes Morgan:I must clarify. I think I'm a lot more mature maybe in my methods now. I'd like to Oh. Anyway.
Gary Joahannes:Excellent. It sounds like the methods were great. I mean, I wouldn't worry about being mature. That actually takes that action gets taken because you started the ball rolling whether they wanted it or not. So it's fantastic.
Gary Joahannes:I'm ex that's so good.
Peter Ely:And so Oh, go on, Ben. Sorry.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I was gonna say, any well, all the stuff you've been doing since you've been a kid to where you are now, what's the the biggest challenge for you on a personal level been? You know, is it in terms of and, obviously, we're about inspired men talk. We look at men's mental health as a predominant factor. Have you struggled with anything? Because there have been challenges that you've had to overcome.
Innes Morgan:Yeah. You know, it's a very good question. And I think coming sort of onto this podcast, it's weird because I think a lot of the time it sounds very cliche, but because I've done this for all of my living memory, I don't really know any different. And it's not until I've actually probably started reflecting on it recently that I've maybe kind of thought about some of the challenges that actually I've kind of faced and sort of shaped me for, you know, both good and bad reasons. And so I think compared to your other guests, to go back to the word mature, I'd say I'm probably less mature sort of in that kind of phase of maybe understanding what these issues and, you know, what these opportunities are and maybe addressing them.
Innes Morgan:But to give you, you know, a couple, I think, you know, one I had in the past and I continue to have is the issue of rejection. I think doing what I'm doing and, again, it's not, yeah, unique to me. Everyone will experience it. But you face a lot of rejection, and sometimes it will be something as simple as you send an email and never get a response. Sometimes it will be you send an email and get a very bad response.
Innes Morgan:Sometimes it will be you're in a meeting. You know, I remember being quite young and being in sort of a a meeting and saying something. I was representing sort of an organization at that time, and we were looking at actively how we could, you know, bring together the capabilities of different sort of organizations to actually create some common good. And I remember there was, you know, a stakeholder or two who were, you know, significantly older than me, and they, you know, for various reasons, were kind of opposed to this sort of idea for change. And just them being quite aggressive and that being quite disheartening may be scary.
Innes Morgan:And so I think rejection's obviously an issue in terms of how I've dealt with that. I think I feel like I have a strong sense of purpose, and, again, that sense is cliche. But I think because I had maybe not a direction of travel. Yeah. I guess some direction of travel.
Innes Morgan:I have some sort of degree of understanding of what value I provide and what value I'd like to provide. I think it's easier to get over rejection because I sort of I'm focused on, you know, I'm gonna make this happen or this is going to happen either way, and, like, I will just find another alternative to make it happen. So I think rejection is probably something that in the past, like, as a young kid, I was really sensitive to it. I would even positive feedback. I would cry.
Innes Morgan:I was it was really difficult. Whereas now, I would say I can be very, like transactional again is probably the wrong word to use, but I can just be very I'm better at dealing with that. I'd say another thing that's perhaps more challenging, and, again, I'd be open to suggestions on this one because I guess it's a live raw issue, is the idea of my identity sometimes being dislocated. Because, you know, on one hand, I'm from this really rural community. But on the other hand, I'm here in Cambridge, but I'm also, you know, working with community groups, but I'm also speaking to ministers and advising ministers and attending these very valuable events.
Innes Morgan:And sometimes, I suppose it can feel like in trying to bridge the two worlds, sometimes you don't fall into either one of those camps. So yeah. So I guess that's kind of like the the two sort of biggest ones that I see, but there's probably a lot more that I'm just not aware of because they're so intrinsically shaped within me that actually I don't notice them. But I guess on sort of that idea of there being two bridges I think that that's challenging, right, because you feel like sometimes you don't belong necessarily into either one of these spheres and sometimes you have to act in certain ways and like you have to be very conscious and methodical about how you're behaving. And, like, that requires a lot of thoughts, a lot of consciousness, and, yeah, that can be difficult.
Benn Baker-Pollard:So I'm gonna bring that question back to you a
Peter Ely:little bit. You she said it might you
Benn Baker-Pollard:know, open to suggestions. How do you cope with it? What do you do now to deal with it?
Innes Morgan:Yeah. I guess, what do I do in the present? Yeah. It's it's a good question. I think I it does go back to that purpose.
Innes Morgan:And, again, to use I probably used the word cliche probably about 10 times now, but I think because I understand now that there's value in doing this work, that there's value in you know, even if the impact's small, there's value in doing something in this space. I think I know that I have a role within both of those spheres. I know that, you know, within my community that I I'm not you know, Innis as a person is, of course, the work I do, but it's also, like, who I am as an individual, the relationships I have, the people I know, you know, my behavior, sort of, like, my values and all those things. And my purpose is not, like, intrinsically linked to just this work. And so I think just recognizing the fact that actually almost spinning it on its head and seeing it as an opportunity.
Innes Morgan:Like, it's a huge, huge privilege that I'm able to be exposed to both of these things that I never thought I would. But it's yeah. I think it's to be sort of at the table with these really senior government stakeholders and then to be able to go home to my community and just be me as well. Like, that is as much as it is dislocating, it's a huge privilege. And just being grateful, I think gratitude is definitely a big thing in this.
Innes Morgan:I think the right sort of all of these challenges, just being grateful for the opportunities I've had and being grateful for the platform that, you know, I'm able to speak from is enormously helpful. I don't know. There's probably some sciency thing that you, again, will know a lot more than idea around how sort of, like, gratitudes kind of, like, can tackle some of these, I don't know, hormones or whatever they are. But I think, yeah, gratitude is definitely one. Just actually, you know, going back to basics and just thinking about purpose.
Innes Morgan:And, actually, sometimes, it's almost you can complicate these things yourself. It's almost that whole thing of, like, outsider sort of imposter syndrome. And, actually, sometimes that's an illusion. And people see you you know, I see all of you as sort of, like, the people you are, and I don't kind of, like, question sort of, like, the roles you play. And so, actually, sometimes you just have to, yeah, move beyond sort of that that veil.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Yeah. What you're saying is something we teach. You you know? So we're talking about keeping that intellectual mind in control and looking at it from a informed perspective rather than with all the emotional and kind of doubt and negative kind of spin on life. Because, actually, if we keep it upstairs, then we we actually can succeed and find ways of overcoming it or be comfortable with who we are.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And you're right. There is something in gratitude. We word it slightly differently because with gratitude, we can also have a negative attachment to it as well. We can be grateful for something, but it could be negative. So all we do is we advise people to say, focus on what's been good in your day.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Make a note of it, the simplest thing. Each day, write down a couple of bullet points what's been good. And that can be simplest from I got up, I got dressed, and had a shower if it's a tough time, or it could be that I met up with friends who went out and we went and watched a movie, or I had a great meeting with the MPs, and I really succeeded in getting my point across. But it is remembering to appreciate the value in the small, simple things in life because they are equally as important as the biggest successes that we have. And if we focus on that chemically in the brain, we get a fantastic reward that helps us cope with day with those challenges in face of day to day life.
Innes Morgan:Yeah. And it's I think it's a very good point as well because sometimes gratitude is hard, particularly when you maybe set high expectations in you and other people, and you want them to perform where you want a specific output. And, actually, you don't get that. But, actually, just being grateful for sort of the small blessings as they are and the the small wins and, actually, how, you know, progress is not linear. It's kind of this I don't know what the graph is, but, you know, it goes up and down.
Innes Morgan:But over time, it sort of it get it gets better. I think the other reflection I would have on that, you've sort of just inspired me there actually, is I often like to think of, you know, every relationship I have is almost like a plant within the garden, and they're all different. They're all diverse, but together it creates this really beautiful ecosystem. You can't set expectations on some of these flowers and plants, and sometimes, you know, they grow in certain ways that you wouldn't expect. But actually just putting in energy, just watering them and giving sort of what they need, and they're only different things.
Innes Morgan:Right? But just not setting expecting them all to be the same. And, yeah, each person I meet to you know, each organization and stakeholder, I feel like they they all add something different to this really beautiful ecosystem. But, yeah, just being grateful for that.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I'm definitely stealing that.
Innes Morgan:Yeah. Yeah. It's a
Peter Ely:really nice analogy. I really Yeah.
Innes Morgan:Probably I've probably stolen that from subconsciously from, like, I don't know, TikTok or something, but I use it anyway.
Peter Ely:No. Definitely.
Gary Joahannes:I think I've got a language pen which says that. Okay. Pete, you've got, like, you you got got lots of questions, and I've got a few questions as well. So you ask yours, and then I'll have a couple of questions.
Peter Ely:I was gonna ask. I imagine moving in like, coming into Cambridge, it's gonna be a lot more populated, a lot more densely populated than where you've grown up and where you've kind of lived your life. How did you cope with that transition?
Innes Morgan:Yeah. So I guess, actually, the more stark one was when I lived in London for a couple of months just before coming to Cambridge, and I literally moved on my own. I don't know. It was, what, 1718. And I think, yeah, at first, it was very overwhelming.
Innes Morgan:What was probably more challenging in London, more so than Cambridge, is that I didn't really know anyone in London. You know, I was young. I was working a full time job, and I didn't have the traditional kind of, like, social basis that maybe you have when you're sort of, you know, moving into a new school, when you go to university, and those kind of frameworks that you can build off and meet people and have those relationships. And I guess, actually, maybe for your listeners, that's more relatable, right, if you move to a new town or city because, you know, if you start a new job, you know, that is a social base, but it's not the same as starting a new school or starting university or, you know, going into any kind of form of, like, traditional training or something like that. You kind of you have to start afresh.
Innes Morgan:And so that was challenging. I guess I was working. And maybe at the time, I didn't realize that I was lonely. And I I was never truly lonely in that sense, but I guess I didn't have many friends there. And my life sort of revolved around the work I was doing.
Innes Morgan:And because I, you know, saw meaning in that and I was enjoying that, that was fine. But it definitely was at times quite isolating. I think what helped with that is actually building routine. And I don't mean building routine as in, you know, getting up every day and sort of, like, having porridge for breakfast, but I more mean going to the same places and actually building relationship relationships with people. And so for me, it was actually going to the gym.
Innes Morgan:And going to this particular gym, Gymbox in Victoria, I managed to build these micro relationships with the staff. So be that the person at reception, be that sort of the person who is leading the class. And over time, that really helps because actually, you know, at the start, it's hard, and you kind of I had that issue of setting expectations. I was like, I need to find friends, like, sort of, like, desperate to, you know, grab onto anything that was coming my way. But, actually, over time, I realized that it kind of was this organic process and, you know, to go back to that garden metaphor.
Innes Morgan:Like, if you, you know, hunt loads of seeds, you know, something's bound to grow. And over time, I guess, that garden built. But, yeah, it was challenging, and I think building routine, you know, going to the gym, you know, committing myself to these things was definitely helpful. I'm just yeah. I that was, yeah, definitely a cornerstone with sort of my strategy, but, yeah, isolating at times.
Peter Ely:That's fantastic. Because when when this started, I was thinking there was a quote that's attributed to Robin Williams, and he said, like, the worst thing, it's one thing to feel alone when you're on your own. He said, but it's much worse being alone in a room full of people or feeling alone in a room full of people. And I love the fact that, you know, you're in a city full of people, and you found a way to actually not feel alone by making those connections.
Gary Joahannes:Well, first of all, that's such an important thing for our listeners to understand because I think many people that I've spoken to over the years doing this role have felt that loneliness amongst being in a room full of people. And it's like, how do you actively learn to interact with people? And that can be quite a big thing for people to learn to start building their own network of friends and colleagues and interactions. So thank you for sharing that. My questions are well, there's two questions.
Gary Joahannes:So the first one is how you know, you've got such a strong purpose, strong desire to make such a big difference, but you're also on the younger side of most people who come on the pod I think you may be the youngest person we've had. How do you stop distractions getting away? You're at university. In my experience of universities, there's lots of distractions, alcohol and everything else. And just being life, there's lots of distractions.
Gary Joahannes:How do you stay committed to your purpose and not be distracted?
Innes Morgan:Mhmm. These are tough questions. I yeah. Again, a very one. I think purpose for me, as much as I'm kind of, like, resolute and I've got kind of a clear focus, I think it does change and shift with times as sort of you embrace new ideas, you meet new people, and you stumble across new things.
Innes Morgan:But I think having it as a thread throughout your life and as, like, a a continuity point, it almost it goes back to sort of what we were saying about routine. Like, for me, perhaps it's easier because for all of my life, I've done these things, and I've kind of been bound by this idea. And so the idea of not doing it is actually quite crazy. And, you know, there might have been points that I've considered stopping, and I've been distracted by other things. But, actually, you always find your way back to these things.
Innes Morgan:And I'm sure for your listeners as well, you know, whether or not you have a clear sense of per you feel like you've got a clear sense of purpose. I think everyone does have that deep felt, sort of, like, convictions within them that maybe they've just not surfaced yet, but, actually, they hold true. I was speaking to someone the other day who was telling me that they actually didn't understand. You know, they they thought they didn't believe any in in anything. They didn't think they believed in golf.
Innes Morgan:They didn't think they had political views or had any real strong convictions in that way. But it wasn't until nineeleven happened that actually they realized, Crikey, I actually do believe things. I actually do have these convictions. It did come to the surface and actually there was some meaning there. And even though sort of I don't know if they were directly affected by an adolescent, but, actually, sometimes it just takes events like that to sort of to ground you in your your, I don't know, inner state of consciousness and being.
Innes Morgan:But, yeah, to answer your question, I think for me, it's always been a point of continuity and, you know, where there's been maybe temptations to drift away. I think I always try and balance it because I'm always focused on the output of this. And even if I only have a small impact, I think just being focused on that is, yeah, really important.
Gary Joahannes:Oh, well, that's a really good answer and how important purpose is to drive our futures and drive our decision makers. So that's great. The other question I've got, again, may be difficult, may be easy for you to answer. We've mentioned a few times you've mentioned a few times you're 20. You've been doing this all your life, which is not many years.
Gary Joahannes:So you started off inviting council as well when you when you was a you know, from most people with words, a child, and you're inviting people around, and you're trying to buy boats on to eat your parents' eBay. So you've always had this strong sense of purpose, but you've been a young man. Mhmm. But you've been a young man from a tiny community, which nobody's heard of. You're Scottish, which you're now in England.
Gary Joahannes:So how do you deal with the stigma of being a young person who's trying to deal with people who might have really strong bias against Scottish, against young, against us, almost bigots. How do you deal with that? Because I in my head, this is something that you're running across every day. When I look at the space you're you're trying to impact, all I see is people who have their own agenda and their own bigotry and their own stigma.
Innes Morgan:Oh, I I this is I like this question because I think my strategies change with time. I think when I was, you know, in the early days, I was probably quite, yeah, again, resolute and kind of aggressive is the wrong word but I was steadfast, I was kind of like pushing people, I was saying what needed to be said perhaps maybe in ways that could have been more diluted maybe for sort of the political people I was dealing with and the, you know, the policy makers and things. So I think I started that way, but I tried to become more collaborative, and that was, you know, good on the whole. But you're definitely right in saying it's it was difficult. And I you know, to use that example again, you know, being shouted down at meetings.
Innes Morgan:I remember being on the phone. I well, I remember a couple of phone calls like this with you know, after, you know, several emails to the CEO of this company. You know, I wanted to talk about sort of the ideas I had for them and how I think, you know, by making a few small changes, they can have a huge impact in my view, but from what I saw. And I just remember, you know, words to the effect of you're not gonna change the world, who are you sort of thing. And at that time, I kind of just went back into a hole and sort of ignored it and just moved on to the next person.
Innes Morgan:But I almost wish in retrospect that I stood up for myself more because, you know, I never set out to change the world. I just set out to maybe change my small part of it or to make a small difference within my own community. And so I think with time, I've maybe I've become more focused on actually just dealing with people who who maybe are more aligned and sympathetic to what I'm talking about. But that doesn't mean that I kind of avoid having hard conversations with state, particularly within government and industry. Like, this agenda that I'm working on, you have to sometimes confront these biases.
Innes Morgan:You sometimes have to confront these ideas because it these are the people who are pulling the levers and who are in charge and who have the authority and have the resources and have the capabilities to make a change. And so without them on board, it's you can't really do much. Sometimes, you know, it's about confronting. Sometimes, it's about trying to work with them. Sometimes, it's about trying to post things in their terms and sort of use their language.
Innes Morgan:But I would say, on the whole, I just try and be as well researched as I can. I try to make, you know, the absolute best impression I can with these people. I try to be as professional as I can, and I try to just tackle sort of every stereotype they could have of me, you know, head on. Apparently, it's still it's still an issue. And even today, like, it's it, like, on a daily, I'm sure it kind of affects my life.
Innes Morgan:But you just have to find ways around it. You have to, you know, tackle the stereotypes head on. Sometime I I think on the whole, I try to be sort of, like, you know, very professional about it, but sometimes you really do kind of just wanna, like, I don't know. Don't cry, but it's it's hard. Yeah.
Innes Morgan:So that's that's probably the takeaway. It's hard.
Gary Joahannes:I mean, what I've just heard is you confront those challenges, and they come in many forms of bias and stigma. You confront it with not walking in there blind, not walking in there. And you don't bend to the stereotype. You don't go, oh, this is what you expect. I'll be what you want me to be.
Gary Joahannes:You know? You're not trying to appease people, and you're forcing people not to appease you because I guess there's a lot of they're they're they're you know? Just say what whatever he wants to, he goes away, and you get turned it up. So I I think that's really powerful.
Innes Morgan:Yeah. It's and persistence is definitely sorry. Is that that, you know, keep talking, keep emailing.
Gary Joahannes:I think that's important. But I tell you what I'm hearing over and over again, and you haven't said the word, but I'm hearing all of the time with this, is resilience. It's really hard to be persistent if you don't have that resilience. And that purpose in that those values is what informs that resilience. I don't know what the other guys think.
Peter Ely:Well, I I was actually gonna say that there's there was an episode of Doogie Howser. You reminded me you won't have heard of this show. It's called Doogie Howser, MD, and it was about a kid who became a doctor. And in one of the episodes, he was facing this kind of this pressure because he was young. And at the end of it, he said, you know, I will not always be young.
Peter Ely:And, unfortunately, it's true. But, you know, at some point, you're gonna get to the point where everyone will look at you as an equal and not as that young person, which will give you even more power because you'll have gone through that and still have that resilience. So, you know, I think that's amazing. Ben, have you got anything you wanted to say?
Benn Baker-Pollard:I think you demonstrate resilience in everything you talk about. For someone who's come from a little remote place in Scotland, you know, that's probably just fields and animals that your main interaction is with bar the local residents to being in Cambridge, going to London, and meeting the people that you are speaking to at the level you're speaking to. You demonstrate resilience in everything you do. I think you're a really inspiring young guy who is probably more switched on about the world and things that you want to achieve and do than a lot of the grown ups in the world. It's a clear demonstration that actually and we see this in a lot of entrepreneurs and and people who succeed in the world is that it doesn't matter where you come from or what your upbringing being, but when you find access to that ability to be resilient and your determination to not accept no and to keep knocking on people's doors, no matter how many times you get knocked down, you get back up again.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And and you learn from the times that you do get knocked down and the doors that are closed in your face, and it shapes you to be a formidable character and somebody who will clearly be very successful in their life. So, yeah, I think you're an absolute inspiration.
Innes Morgan:Thank you. So yeah. I mean, it it means a lot, and I yeah. Again, I I really appreciate it, and I think it's very true to say that what was the saying? Is it resilience or beats natural talent any day of the week?
Innes Morgan:I yeah. I wouldn't say I'm naturally gifted at many things. In fact, I actually learned recently that I think I'm apparently dyslexic, which almost surprised me because I'm here studying politics, writing essays. Yeah. I think it's that resiliency.
Innes Morgan:Yeah. I I've never thought about it in that way, but it's, yeah, definitely, perhaps true.
Gary Joahannes:It's really important. And and, you know, I mean, I think when we understand ourselves, and, I mean, we we've talked about it before on on this call and privately, you know, we talk about people's self awareness. Most people don't have much self awareness or emotional intelligence. People talk about themselves having plenty, and then you go in, well, you don't have that much really. Or they're not very mindful even though they wanna be mindful and they've been open themselves.
Gary Joahannes:All I'm hearing is your self awareness, which then gives and they come from those values, and you know what your values are. You're aware of who you are. You're aware of how old you are and the fact that you've got to step in to, for a better word, the lines then of middle aged white people who or have people who have an agenda, and you're trying to spoil their fun or their outcomes by being practical. And one of the things I hear a lot a lovely sound I like is you need to be more childlike and less childish. Most MPs, most people of my generation become quite childish, and we can't see with the wonder of those childlike eyes.
Gary Joahannes:So that that youth you've got can see things clearly, and you say it how it is without the cloud of I've got to now do this, and I've got to appease these people and please those people, and I've got to reach this agenda, which is very selfish. So your self awareness, your emotional intelligence just shines through, and you're sticking to your core values is so important because that drives you and gives you that ability to get up when you've been knocked down and keep that resilience and persistence going. So I'm loving what I'm hearing. You're you're you know, I don't know where you're gonna go. I don't know where you're gonna get to, but, wow, I don't think this is such a valuable podcast for people to listen to who are struggling with their own goals, their own outcomes they're trying to create.
Gary Joahannes:And they're not able to stay loyal to their own values because they feel pressure from everybody else's. Mhmm. And you're not getting the pressure from everybody else's. You're going, yes, but this is what I need to do. And I'm very inspired by that.
Gary Joahannes:So well done,
Peter Ely:guys. So before I I kinda hand over and and give you the the chance to tell us more about act with purpose, I have one last question. Your journey started because you wanted to look at how you could help your community.
Gary Joahannes:Mhmm.
Peter Ely:And although it's still only a really short journey, right, in terms of of linear time, what changes or what things have you seen that have benefited your community from the work that you've done so far, and where do you want it to go to?
Innes Morgan:Oh, yeah. Again, a good one. I think on the impact space, what's maybe changed is the way I view community and the level I've used community. You know, at the start, I was kind of like, I want to, you know, bring in, you know, jobs, opportunities to my place and do these things. And it's been, you know, great to be involved in work that's, you know, led to those kinds of effects and to support causes and initiatives that I've done that.
Innes Morgan:But, actually, I think as I've gotten older or, you know, matured a little bit, I think I've realized the gap maybe is more in how, you know, the big senior decision makers in government identify with these issues and how within organizations we can, you know, make small changes, you know, incremental changes that have huge effects on society. And so in that space, I think it's hard to again, I think one thing that I'm quite hard on myself on is actually trying to be tangible about that impact because I think I'm driven ultimately by tangible impacts. You know? If I go back to sort of that early example of, like, I want to see jobs and opportunities created in my place, but, actually, I think the changes I've seen have been maybe more in mindsets and more in the way that particular organizations and particular, you know, ministers and senior civil servants go about their work. And I think it's hard to quantify what that looks like.
Innes Morgan:And I mean, like, of course, you know, I can split off kind of numbers that don't really make much sense about, like, you know, we've reached, you know, 10,000 people and, you know, engaged 50 plus organizations. But, actually, it's hard to what I would like to do more of is actually storytelling around these individual organizations and these leaders to actually because it's, yeah, it's hard to quantify what that impact looks like. But I guess going forward, I think I would you know, of course, I think both are important. You know, the grassroots, you know, change, seeing jobs, opportunities, and things, but also the mindsets instead of the macro level strategy stuff is important. I think I'd like to see again, it sounds quite fluffy, but I would like to move to a space where organizations can better come together when we think about social value.
Innes Morgan:So, you know, most organizations do corporate social responsibility. They do environmental social governance. They have all these initiatives, you know, that show that they're sustainable, that they're good for the planet, that they're good for communities. But, actually, thinking about how we can tie together some of these benefits would be really powerful, I think. So maybe it's the case that Microsoft, you know, have these vast amounts of, you know, technological innovations and all this great data that maybe when paired with a charity, they could do some really fantastic work.
Innes Morgan:So I actually think bringing people together in that space would be yeah. That's where I think I'd like to go, but we'll see.
Peter Ely:Excellent. So we've we've kinda come to near the end of our time, and this is where we give you the opportunity to tell us about what you're doing, tell us a bit about act with purpose, how people can contact you, etcetera. So would you like to tell us a little bit about that?
Innes Morgan:You've heard a little bit about sort of the origin story of active purpose, what we're about, who we are, our agenda, and what we're rooted in. And so over the past couple of years, it's been a huge learning curve. I've learned a ton, and the direction I don't wanna say it's always changing because that implies that it's very volatile, but I think we're constantly adapting to changing circumstances. But the the bulk of our work just now is focused on building leadership capability within both the civil service and industry around the idea of purpose. So what does it mean to be a purpose driven leader for both your organization, for your your yourself as an individual, and for the communities demographics and society you serve.
Innes Morgan:So we do a lot of work in that space. And we also do a lot of work within sort of a system space, thinking about how organizations can integrate better, how they can think about corporate social responsibility, how they can think about and measure their impact in different novel ways that are better for society. And so if your listeners, as individuals, are interested in learning more about our work and contributing to our network and our community, you know, be that through insights or coming along to our events, that would be absolutely fantastic. Or equally, if they're interested from an organizational perspective in getting some of those insights or working with us on some of these projects, that would be great. And you can do so by reaching out to me at w w w dot act with purpose dot org.
Peter Ely:Fantastic. Ines, it's been a genuine pleasure chatting with you and learning about your story. You've you've brought so many fascinating fascinating concepts to light, and and it's amazing to see that young people aren't what I was, which was a little bit of a boot out of the football player. It's lovely to see that young people actually do take care of of the environment and do care about these things. So thank you for coming on and and talking with us today.
Peter Ely:Gents, would you like to say thank you and goodbye?
Benn Baker-Pollard:Yeah. Cool. Again, and as like I said, you know, really inspiring, mate. You're phenomenal to from where you come from to where you're at, and I'm sure you're one to watch and see where you progress to as the future continues, which I'm looking forward to keeping track of. And thanks for coming on the podcast.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Been a real pleasure.
Gary Joahannes:Yeah. And for me, a massive thank you. Very inspiring. And, again, like Ben just said, want to watch. I'd like to see where you end up.
Gary Joahannes:And massive good luck doing your degree. That's gotta be some hard work, and we're gonna smash it by the sounds of it. So well done, and stay in contact. You're already down the road from where I am. It would be nice to speak to you again.
Gary Joahannes:Thank you.
Innes Morgan:Yeah. Thank you both so much and to all of you and to your listeners as well. It's, yeah, been a huge privilege, and, yeah, really appreciate the opportunity.
Peter Ely:So thank you for listening to Inspired Men Talk. I hope you learned some great stuff there from Ines. And and if you've got any feedback for us, please reach out, and we can talk about how you can make an impact for your community. Until the next time, take care. Bye bye.
Gary Joahannes:Thank you for listening to the podcast that proves men do talk.
Benn Baker-Pollard:If you would like more information or support, then please visit inspiredtochange.bit,
Peter Ely:where you can learn more about us and the inspired to change team.
Chris:And remember, the conversation continues on our social media at inspiredmentor.
