Inspired Men Talk: Breaking the Stigma of Men's Mental Health

Gary: [00:00:00] Welcome to Inspired Men Talk, for solution focused therapists born in four different decades who openly and honestly discuss their perspectives on the issues surrounding men's mental health. The things that stigma say we don't talk about. Hello and welcome to this episode of Inspired Men Talk and this episode we're going to talk about the C word.
Yes, Christmas. Oh, it's, it's looming, it's looming fast. And it's interesting how much we're already talking about what Christmas is, what it does for us, how it makes us feel. And actually as a mental health professional, we [00:01:00] see lots of different aspects of it, but on our podcast, as you all know, we've got.
Four guys from four different generations. So it'd be interesting to see how Christmas, what impact it has on their lives. So this episode, we're talking about Christmas and the impact, the pressure that Christmas can add to the weight of being something we have to celebrate, even if we don't want to sometimes, so welcome everyone.
Hello. Welcome guys. Hello.
Benn: I mean, I know you've been around a long time. Have you ever met father Christmas? Cause he's probably from your generation. And
Gary: I have, I have, I actually have got photographic evidence as well. My grandchildren absolutely believe. I'm a mate of five of Christmases, because about two years ago, I think it was two.
It might have been three. I was in hospital this time of year, just a little bit later, like the week [00:02:00] before Christmas, I was in hospital, I was taken ill. And the guy in the bed opposite, Had a big white beard, bald head. He looked just like Santa. And then when he was allowed to get out of bed, he put a red robe on.
With, with white bits. And it looked like a Santa's cloak. And I actually made him take, let me take photos and selfies. And he loved doing it. And I sent them to the grandchildren. And I said, you know, Santa's slipped on the ice in the North Pole. And he's got a bad leg because he had a crutch. And they actually believed, they truly believed.
This guy. He could have been in any film. He looked just like Santa Claus. So I have got photographic evidence that I know and I've actually been in hospital with Santa in December. Fair enough.
Chris: fantastic. Like
Gary: it, I like it. So yeah, there is a Santa, so don't ever tell me there's no Santa. Excellent. So I'd like to get in, we've got no [00:03:00] specific questions as usual, but I'd like anybody, one of you guys to talk about.
What Christmas is for you, but actually, if there's anything what puts you under an undue pressure because it's Christmas. I mean,
Benn: I love Christmas. I absolutely love it. I love being with family. I love just the excitement of Christmas morning. I guess that comes from, you know, growing up as a kid, it was always a big deal for us Christmas day.
And coming down and all getting around the coal fire and doing presents and just having a great time in the morning and then obviously you go see the family or you all go out as a, as a big family for somewhere to eat if you're not cooking it. so. I love the vibe, the feel of Christmas, but you're right, it causes a lot of stress at the same time.
And that's around the financial impact of trying to buy a present. And thinking about, you know, how do I afford getting people presents? And importantly, there's [00:04:00] always an element of it, I guess, you know, you don't want to let your other half down, or I certainly feel like that, by getting them something that's really naff or shit.
And then you've had, oh, an upset in a minute becomes a bit of an issue. So I guess you always kind of feel like you've got to push the boat out that extra little bit and make something special out of it, but that comes with a financial cost.
Gary: Do you find that each year there's an escalation of that because of what you did last year?
Almost, yeah.
Benn: Yeah, it can be. You've either got to match it or it goes up. Yeah.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting you say that because I think everybody definitely feels that pressure. And it's not even just selling financial. I think it's also just, not even when you look at the money, it is just that making sure that you Get that right thing, and the stress of that alone is sometimes enough.
But in reality, I don't think I've ever been ungrateful for being on the other side of it. [00:05:00] Even if it is a bit shit. It doesn't really matter, so we put that stress on ourselves for no real reason, and it's particularly with our closest loved ones that we do that, knowing full well that our closest loved ones don't really care.
And, you know, so it's why we put that stress on ourselves and that pressure on ourselves is unknown, because we've all had shit presents sometimes, at some point, we've all had a shit present. We don't make a big deal out of it, well I certainly don't, I'm sure there's some people that do, but You know, so where is this pressure coming from?
You know, why do we do it to ourselves? I think it comes back to, you want, you use that time to show those people what they mean to you. And that's really important. I think that's really important, you
Gary: know. So what I'm hearing is, generally we're using physical gifting to show our amount of love or [00:06:00] care or respect we have for someone.
And if that physical thing isn't big enough, we don't care. Well, I mean, that's
Chris: clearly not true, is it?
Gary: No, but that's what it seems like. But that's what we do ourselves,
Chris: yeah.
Benn: I think that's it as well, though, you know. I know for me, definitely, it's that driving side to make them happy, to make them feel like, you know, you do care.
I, I, I look for gifts and I take ages trying to find gifts because I want to find something that's right for them, but equally that shows like me, what's inside that I care about them and that they
Gary: are special to me. Peter, you've got a great deal of Irish historic, you know, you know, genetics or whatever.
You've got family in Ireland. I don't know how to say it properly. Sorry. I lost the words, but is it different?
Peter: Yeah, I mean, I have a huge [00:07:00] extended family and I mean, at one point, so I've got loads of cousins. They're all married. They've got kids. And at one point, Christmas was just a, it was like a credit card because you were spending so much money and they'd be, you know, maybe 10 or 12 of us.
around the table having, having Christmas dinner. So you, you were buying for everyone that was around the table and then you were buying for the people that weren't there as well. And that's before I would go to even a partner. So, you know, that's just the family side of things. And then we, we put a cap on it.
So we said, you know, there's a 25 pound limit. But even that can kind of become a big, a big issue still. Cause I'm talking about, yeah, it really,
Gary: it really becomes a mortgage.
Peter: Yeah. It's, it's huge. Cause it's, you're talking somewhere in the region of about 30, 40, sometimes even 50 people, depending on who's coming around.
Benn: Yeah, 50 people. Wow. Yeah.
Peter: Yeah. And it's, [00:08:00] it's mental. It's mental. And you know, at some point I had. You know, a massive disposable income and it was never really, it was never an issue for me, but then as, as my disposable income, you know, the cost of living and stuff like that becomes less and less, it starts to become an issue.
And, and I think this year's, this year's been a big one because we've got family that have got kids now and one of my cousins is pregnant with twins. anD it's, it's put in a huge financial. Issue across it, you know and that's before you're talking about the food and all the other things that you have to do around Christmas.
So it's, it's from a financial perspective, it puts a huge kind of burden on you.
Gary: Do you think it's changed over the decades? Because I come from a big family as well. I'm one of nine. And I remember growing up, you know, we were poor. And I mean, most of my Christmas gifts were secondhand gifts. You know, and, you know, it's something I talk about a lot, and here it goes again.
But [00:09:00] literally, I'd get second hand manuals that were already written in, and things like that. And I guess there was a little bit of, you know, but actually, nobody complained. We all sort of made the best it was being together and everything else. And it was, you know, we ate well. But that was the main thing.
We all ate well. We had amazing food and things like that. And we were together and, you know, big family. We always had a good fight somewhere along that Christmas period. There was always an argument because, you know, that happens, but it was Christmas was again, that old fashioned, you know, it was getting together.
And I think my mom was very good at that. But now I think. If I gave somebody a secondhand present, because that's all I could afford and it was me doing my absolute best. I don't know if I'd feel good about giving something. So I'm now [00:10:00] made to feel bad if I can't gift well. If I'm going, listen, I've got nothing to give you, but can I give you a hug?
It's like, well, that's worthless. And maybe they'd love that, but I'd feel like I was worthless. So the pressure's on me.
Chris: Yeah, and I think that goes back to what we were saying earlier with Ben, that we build this expectation up that we have to do this, but in reality, like you said, for them, that might be, that might be what they want, that might be enough, but it is, you build it on yourself.
It's a, I think giving is about how it makes you feel. Well, it's supposed to be. It's about how it makes them feel. Well, you know, and, but it's, you don't feel, you don't get the right feeling if you're not giving enough, so. I've
Benn: got a question for you, Chris. And I always think about this from looking at my mum and dad and looking at how crazy Christmas is when.
What's the pressure like having kids to make sure they have a good Christmas? To have the presence that they want, you know, they write their letter to Santa, [00:11:00] don't they? And then there's that added expectation that you've got to get that stuff for them.
Chris: Yeah, there is. I mean, it is difficult, you know, you know, I've got three children.
So again, if we're going to talk about the financial side of things, that gets expensive. You know, one. Well, that's it. Why it's you've got to look at how much you can spend, how much you can afford to spend, and then you've got to spread that across. But then you've got to make sure that you're balancing it.
So they're all getting the same value from it and things like that. And those are the stresses that I find you end up putting yourself under. I mean, I've been a dad now for 12 years, so I've Got more to the point now where actually a lot of that stuff doesn't matter. It's about getting them what's right for them and about getting them what's going to make them happy and get pleasure out of it.
It's not about weighing up the scales, if you like. But, but it is a big pressure, you know, in. Making sure they have a good Christmas. You, you don't want any of [00:12:00] them to be disappointed, but, but, and you, I think you fantasize Christmas, especially when you've got kids about what you used to have when you was a kid.
I think you fantasize this tradition and this feeling that you used to have, and you wanna try and match that. But actually it's something that happens naturally. It's personal and you can't bring this fantasy of what you remember because it's completely different. I can't tell you what I got for Christmas when I was nine years old.
I cannot tell you what I got for Christmas, but I can remember how I felt at Christmas when I was a kid. So that's what I've come to learn as I've
Gary: got, as my kids have grown older. It's interesting, it's interesting because I've been so, I've got three children, as you all know, and some years we've been so broke, all the Christmas presents have come from the pound shop, and they loved them.
Luckily they can't remember what they got. And I don't know if your children, Christopher, got Pound Shop presents, whether they'd be [00:13:00] happy because they will be comparing themselves to everything else they see. Sorry, Peter, I jumped in on you. No, you're
Peter: fine, because I wanted to kind of go on to that point there, there was something that I saw a little while back where someone, and I used to get it as well as a kid, I used to get tangerines in a stocking, that was, that was kind of a thing, and, yes mate, yes.
And I, and I saw a thing where someone said that they were for their younger kids, sort of like under fives, they would wrap up food, bananas, so they could tear the wrapping, you know, or cereal. And those kids, you saw them opening those presents, and they were just as excited as if they'd got an iPad, because it meant, you know, it was a gift.
And I think we, we've, Christmas has become so commercial that we've forgotten that. Yeah,
Gary: and we've forgotten because I remember, and I said, I come from a big family, we're very poor. We got tangerines, you know, [00:14:00] and we got nuts. We had to use nutcrackers or mostly the hammer because the nutcrackers, nobody could bloody find them after the first day and nobody could crack them up, particularly Brazil nuts.
You couldn't crack a Brazil nut, you'd get a hammer on it. But they're available all the time. So, having things like, we all remember the packet of figs. Yeah. This is
Benn: stirring so many emotions in my body, like, thinking of this. It's like taking me right back to my childhood.
Gary: The long box. With the plastic fork thing inside when you opened them.
We all got that, but it was exciting. Now if you bought nuts and a nutcracker for kids, they look at you, what are they? You know, where did they come from? I'm not cracking them, who do you think I am? I'm not opening them myself.
Chris: I don't know, I think that's a bit cynical of you. I think, I think there's
Gary: probably some people out there like that.
You can't buy them hardly. Well,
the
Chris: thing is, you can buy, you can buy them. You can buy them all year round. There's nothing special about them anymore. I think that's the difference [00:15:00] there. You know, and yeah, I think being a little bit cynical, but I think you may be right in some ways. I mean, there is one pressure that parents now that you guys won't have experienced that really is a pressure around Christmas time.
And that's the bloody elf on the shelf.
Peter: That
Chris: bloody thing is probably the bane of most parents lives nowadays because you have to do it, you have to absolutely do it, you have to be part of it, because every other child at school is talking about what their elf did yesterday and what, and everything, so the elf has to come to your house every year, and every year, the elf Has to think of something different to do every morning,
Gary: and I can't do what I did last year.
No, no,
Chris: they have to. It has to be new and inventive. You know, the elf has to be on the ball every day. And that's a pressure. That's a big pressure because you have to. It's just another thing why you've got
Gary: everything else to do. [00:16:00] So when do they grow out of that? I don't know.
Peter: He's
Benn: hoping
Gary: it's soon. So, but the problem you've got, if you've got a 12 year old, she might grow out of it in the next year or two, but you've also got a 7 year old.
So it's going to have to keep going. Until the youngest one decides you can stop. Yeah,
Chris: it's blackmail, it's ransom, that's what
Benn: it is. That has a lot of commercial pressure though as well. It does. My burger alarm company has emailed to give us an update to say, We're gonna add the elf Santa thing to the burger alarm system so it'll take pictures when you disarm it with an elf.
And this, that and the other. And I'm like, Christ, how far do people go for this at Christmas?
Chris: I know. And it is. And I think because you've got the social media side, I mean, I've got a 12 year old, so she's got a small amount of social media to her access. So yeah, that comparison thing, whether it's gifts, whether it's elf [00:17:00] antics, whether it's the way your house is decorated, the food you're serving at Christmas, the clothes that you've got.
To where, you know, it's all comparable now. And I think
Gary: that's a big pressure. Food's a big pressure. Well, kids don't bloody eat food nowadays. When I was a kid, Christmas dinner was amazing. It was the big dinner of the year. And you ate everything. And now it's like, I don't eat that. I don't eat that. I don't eat that.
Can we go to McDonald's? It's Christmas Day. And I don't think that's the same as it was. Maybe I'm just Blows tinted glasses the whole time. But I know that You know, we, we have a, you know, we, we had a sign, my mom had a sign, you like it or lump it, that's all there is, you know. I
Benn: think there's a big shift though, you know, if we look at Christmas in reality, it came from sort of a religious perspective, didn't it?
And it was, you know, that's a massive shift in today's society, you know, religion formed the undercurrent of everything. Many years [00:18:00] ago, you know, you were born, you were baptized, you were the Christian, you know, Church of England or Catholic or all that. But now we've gone so widespread and I think people have, a lot of people have moved away from religion.
So it's changing,
Gary: feeling the vibe for Christmas. Absolutely. And that does grind with me a little bit because it's like, well, you can have a present if you can tell me why we're having this. stuff and most people now don't understand the symbolism and I'm not particularly religious at all. We were, we understood what it was about.
Now it's just a holiday season. I feel like,
Chris: I mean, that's each everybody's opinion, but I feel like. Getting bitter about that isn't the right thing. I think as long as people are taking a positive view on what Christmas means to them. I don't see the problem, you know, I mean, yeah, you're right. The religion is what started Christmas and that that should always [00:19:00] be remembered.
But as long as people are taking, using a positive aspect to bring that timely view to them, then I don't think there's an issue with that. Whether it's religion, whether it's family, or whatever, whatever it may be. I mean, as long as it's a positive event, I don't think that matters. I don't think we should get hung up on what it was and what it should be.
I think it's let it be what people want it to be and make it their own. As long as it's a positive experience for them, you know, I mean, we can talk about Santa Claus being a big commercialized issue, but actually that's however you want to look at it. I saw something not long ago about a dad's telling his son the truth about Santa, about Santa Claus.
Yeah. And it was really good. It was really good. It was basically to get to the gist of it because it was quite long and it was basically telling him, okay, the truth is there is a Santa, but he's not a person. [00:20:00] It's an act of giving without needing the thanks, without needing the recognition for giving.
It's the act of giving without expectation. And I don't know if that's still there. And that's what the centre
Gary: is. And I, and I think that was lost.
Peter: Well, you might be right. Yeah, it seems to be that that, that's been that message has been pumped around because I've seen that message a lot this year as well and I think it is trying to get people back to understand that but it's funny because I was thinking you you talked a lot there I think you said the word positive about a hundred times when you were talking there yeah and and I think about when I go to family Christmas I live on my own And I'm very comfortable living on my own.
I'm an only child just for background. So I've always been used to having my own company. And I actually find spending time with family quite difficult because some people, some people are great and, and I love spending time with them and others are there [00:21:00] to cause. Almost an argument to start a row.
Chris: That's
Gary: called family, isn't it? I
Chris: think so.
Peter: Yeah. It's just, it's really weird, but you know, you sit there as a, as a single person living by myself, having a house where people are just shouting and screaming at each other. is really stressful. It's really kind of just makes me want to get up and leave. And unfortunately I don't have a car, so I'm stuck at someone's house.
So it becomes a different kind of stress. So I, you know, Christmas for me doesn't always necessarily be positive when it's, when it's around family. And I think that's a regular thing because a lot of people will talk about. How they don't like spending time with their
Benn: family. One of our busiest days of the year, Christmas, when I was in the police, Christmas morning.
It'd be really common to be going to fights and domestics and arresting people on Christmas Day, and you think, Christ, what's gone wrong, you know? Like, your Christmas is going to be spent in a cell.
Gary: But I don't think that changed over decades. Because he's just put a lot of people who, you know, just create tension, but [00:22:00] just to flip this a little bit, because, you know, I think we've all agreed that we like Christmas when it's done right, it's following what Ben said.
It's really difficult time of year for lots of people. And I was having a discussion last week. There was something called, like one of the charities was, I think it was a Salvation Army, something like that. We're going donate money so we can feed people at Christmas. And I and I, and it's like, would you, and I said to someone, would you donate?
And they went, no. And I'm like, I'll tell you what, if I didn't have. The parental expectations on me, I'd go and work in a food kitchen on Christmas Day and feed as many people as I can. You know, I'm never one for giving money, I like to be honest with that. But I'll give time and energy and food and anything I can.
But how many people, how many of you would actually So, you know, give up your Christmas to make somebody who couldn't have a Christmas because they were [00:23:00] homeless or because they were poor or because their families were suffering, who would, you know, maybe even open your doors, but, you know, I'm giving up a lot
of
Benn: my Christmases over my
Gary: years.
Is that because you've been working? Working
Benn: by choice, so. So, Christmas time it comes down to a select, you have a certain number of people that are required to work, to meet the minimum requirements. Yeah. But I've always viewed it as I don't have kids. So I, I would work because it would mean that other members of your team would have the opportunity to spend their time at home with their family.
beCause for me, I can afford to do that because, you know, I think that's more important for them. anD you're right. It's a really difficult time. And it's probably, I always feel like whether, you know, the police or I'm volunteering on the ambulance this time of year. And Christmas can be a real lonely and sad time for people, particularly those elderly people who live in their little house still, you know, but their [00:24:00] family, they don't have their family's gone or they didn't have kids.
So they're on their own and it is a sad time
Gary: or they've been disassociated from their family for whatever one of the previous feuds at Christmas. Yeah, I mean,
Chris: I think we look a lot of on other people on our own. Expectations and our own feelings. So I think we do a lot of that. I mean, some of these people may be happy doing what they do.
I mean, Peter, you've already said, actually, sometimes you'd rather just be at home on your own, you know? So I think it's unfair to, I think we put a lot of. This is how you should feel on Christmas, and this is what you should do on Christmas, and if you're not doing it, there's something wrong with you, and we need to come and help you.
And I think there's a lot of that. And then I think, actually, people do get caught up in that side of things, and that's why they feel extra lonely at Christmas, because it's thrown at them so much that they're doing it wrong, or that they're They are on their own. It's, you know, everything around it [00:25:00] is, is reminding them that the fact that they haven't got what everybody else has got, I think that makes it difficult.
Gary: Do you think that relates a lot to where their current state of mental health is? I remember when, when I was a kid and my My Nan died in September. And I remember my dad used to get upset at Christmas because his mom wasn't there. And that used to, and that used to spin me out a little bit, as in I didn't understand, you know, I was young, you know, but this was a grown man being upset that his mom wasn't there.
And you know, but I actually now know with. The experience and the knowledge and the therapy knowledge I have is actually he was as stressed as anybody I've probably ever worked with. If I'd known then what I know now, you know, he was in a, you know, really anxiety [00:26:00] riddled world where he'd created himself.
So he, he didn't have a lot of capacity. So at Christmas he found something to hang that anxiety on.
Chris: Yeah,
Peter: I think that's quite common because it's, because it's such an event and it always was such an event when someone is then missing from that. It, it, it compounds. So it doesn't, you know, it's not just, Oh, we've got a Christmas.
It's, we've got a Christmas without, and it's always that, you know, that person's not there. That person's not there. And if you come from a family, like I do, someone's doing something. So my aunt generally does the cooking, you know, but someone's doing something. And if that person's missing, well, then someone's got to pick up the stuff that they weren't doing.
As well as. Yeah, or you go without. So as well as missing them, you put extra pressure on yourself to kind of make Christmas special. And it's just, it was just such a common term. We've got to have a good Christmas. It must be special. It must be special. And I think we [00:27:00] do add that extra pressure to ourselves.
And especially when people are missing from our lives.
Chris: I've got a question for everyone. I've got a question for everybody. What are your responsibilities for Christmas? What, what do you do? What, I mean, you've always said you're going to spend time with family, but what, what do you do at Christmas and what are your responsibilities?
I'm quite lucky. What
Peter: are your pressures? Yeah, I'm, I'm, what are my, what are my responsibilities for Christmas dinner? It used to be that I would bring the wine and I would bring it or the, the, the champagne and I would bring a case of Laurent Perrier rosé for us all to sit around and drink. And that was it.
Gary: You were the cause of the fights?
Peter: No, no, because the fight started before I even got there. And to be fair, once the champagne started to go, the fights all died down because everybody had a drink in hand. But yeah, no, I was quite lucky in that, that, that my responsibility was quite low until afterwards.
So I'd then do the cleaning up. You know, I'd be part of the cleaning up team. So [00:28:00] the women would cook the food and then the men would do the cleaning
Gary: up. But what expectations of pressure is there on you? Christmas is coming. Well, you've got to
Chris: show up for a
Peter: start. Yeah, I think, I think that's the one.
But is that it? That and don't get involved in the fight. And sometimes that can be, sometimes that can be really, really hard. You know, I remember, I remember one year, one of my uncles, he just, he just got upset that someone else was coming because he didn't particularly like that individual and they were only coming for the meal.
And. They came for the meal, and he was, before they'd arrived, he was just in a really foul mood about this individual being there. And it was like, what, you're going to ruin everyone's Christmas just because this guy's joining us for food? So, you know, sometimes just not being involved in the fight. Is of a huge expectation.
Gary: And that's But mostly you just have to turn up and Yeah, mostly just turn up. Your Christmas is sorted. Pretty much.
Chris: Wow. But he has to turn up. [00:29:00] He has to turn up. Yeah. So, is that In all seriousness, is that Is that a pressure? An expectation that you wish you didn't necessarily
Peter: have? Do you know what?
Sometimes I did exactly what Ben did and what Ben was talking about. So I worked in the security industry and it was a 24 7 thing and if there were people with kids, I would give them the day off and I would volunteer and do overtime so that I didn't have to turn up. And that happened a couple of years.
Not very often, but it did happen a few years. So it was
Gary: convenient.
Peter: Yeah, it worked well for
Gary: me. And good. It was nice,
Peter: but yeah, and I'll get back to someone else, which was kind of cold. But yeah, it was just, it was just yeah, just not being there was actually the nice thing.
Gary: What's the question again?
No, sorry. I was going to
Chris: say, I don't want to pick on Peter too much. Alright. Another question I've got is when you see all the stuff about [00:30:00] Christmas, or all the adverts on the TV, and all the stuff and that, does that sometimes make you feel out of place? Because you haven't got a place, you haven't got Your own little family or your, you know, like I said, I don't want to
Peter: pick on you
Chris: or anything like that.
But does it, does that add emotional upset to you or are you quite comfortable in yourself?
Peter: Do you know what? I broke up with a, with a girl around Christmas time and a few years after that it was tough. But then now, no, not so much. It's, it's just Christmas.
Gary: Those years it was tough was that when you was really grateful that you could go to family and spend the time with family because quite often that's quite nice when, you know, life's tough and you can actually go into the bosom of your family and they will help you and they'll be on your side.
It's normal normality. Well, it,
Peter: it wasn't normal because I was, because again, I was quite insular and it was for the most of the time it was just me. So actually it was kind [00:31:00] of, it was ordinary for Christmas that there was loads of us around. And I suppose, yeah, in some respects it did help. But then in others, I'm not sure.
I always, I always find just that. Being surrounded by so many people. Yeah. It's like, oh, I just really don't want this. I just want to sit on my own and watch a bit of telly or eat a bit
Chris: of food or whatever.
Gary: You're quite a miserable son, aren't you? I really
Peter: am. Yeah, bar humbug is my motto around
Gary: Christmas.
Typical comedian, really. Yeah, very much so. Grooge. Ben, what pressure do you have because of Christmas?
Benn: I don't know if it's a pressure at all, but Well,
Gary: expectations.
Benn: I guess that expectation is something called the pressure I build on myself, but I kind of view Christmas as my responsibility to make sure everybody else has a good time for my family, you know, to make sure that they know they're loved and that I care about them.
And they have a good [00:32:00] time. So you know, at the moment, I think about my mum because my dad's not around anymore. He died when I was 21. So it's what's mum doing for Christmas? Where is she? She's not on her own or, you know, making sure she enjoys it. And then I think about, you know, my other half family, they've lost his mum's lost her mother and this year is their first Christmas without them.
So for me, the pressure and importance is that we go and make sure that they have. a nice time. It is important for me that I help, I don't know, other people feel supported, feel loved. My family is massively important to me and I love them and I want to make sure they know that, but equally, you know, friends are important to me as well.
Another example is my, my one of my good friends, he lost his wife to cancer about five, maybe even longer now, maybe seven years ago and they had two young daughters. You know, sort of 14 and 16 and I knew that their family Christmas [00:33:00] for the first time without their mom was going to be horrendous because the dynamic had changed.
Yeah. So for me, it was important that we went to their house on Christmas day and that I almost sacrificed my family a little bit to make sure that they had. A Christmas that they enjoyed, and we've done that for a few years now, but thankfully they've reached that point where they've grown up and almost get that independence back.
Gary: But how does that then fit? Because you sacrificed your own family. How did you have pressure from your family? Because you were doing what you perceived as the right thing, but then were they going, but what about us? And you've said about you and your family, what about your husband's family? You know, what about their needs?
So,
Benn: you know, I guess we're both incredibly fortunate that no, our family's not like that. Our family is 100 percent going to support those people. They need your help and [00:34:00] support. And that's kind of the ethos I've been brought up on. And that's our family's values. And it's about who needs you the most you go and support.
And that's really important for me.
Gary: Which is what Christmas is all about.
Benn: Yeah, I think so. I genuinely do. I think that is the fundamental belief of Christmas. That's what it is about. It's about looking after and making sure people who need support need the love
Gary: and they feel it. It's interesting because I'm not religious.
It's, you know, weddings and funerals and that's it for me. But that, there's so much learning from religion, which Christmas is all about. It's about love thy neighbor. And that is You know, in a good Samaritan and things like that, which really come to bear at Christmas, doesn't it? Well, should do. What pressure are you under, Christopher?
You asked a question. Well, I was listening to
Chris: everybody else's thing. And it's interesting because Ben, I mean, it sounds lovely. It's really, you're really [00:35:00] fortunate that you've got those understanding people in your family. I think there's a lot of people that Don't have that and there is that constant emotional battle of who to go and see and who not to.
You're always going to let someone down. There's always that aspect of you're going to let somebody down. You're going to, somebody has to sacrifice something. And that's something that I have to manage every year. And, you know, most people, most, most of the time you get to the conversation, everybody's like, well, just do what's right for you.
Do what you want to do for Christmas. Let's do what. the best for you. But you still can't help feeling that way that you are letting somebody down or you are cutting somebody out. So that's definitely a big woman on the build up to Christmas. And then, I mean, from my point of view as well, I'm a divorced.
Dad, so I have my children every other Christmas, the other year they're with their mum. So that changes Christmas for me every, on a yearly basis. It's very different. And I've only been doing that for three years now, so I'm [00:36:00] still quite new to it myself. That's a struggle in itself. I remember the first Christmas, I didn't have the children, I felt completely out of place, not, no purpose whatsoever.
And that was hard for me. And with you, Peter, you're quite happy to show up, bring the wine, that's you done. I couldn't do that. I need to have more of an input. I need to be more involved, you know, and that's how I, how I like to have things. So the pressure of not having anything to do is actually harder for me than actually having a place to be and a job to do.
So this year, I'm having, I've got the children at Christmas, I'm having Christmas at home, inviting people around, and we're making a big thing of it, you know. For me, that's less pressure than not having anything to do. Does that make sense to you guys? Because that's I like, and I have got the pressure of making sure everything's right for everybody, but I like that
Gary: pressure.
It's
Chris: a chosen pressure. I like that pressure. The buying the gifts for the kids and everything. I mean, that's always [00:37:00] a struggle. Like, thankfully, I've got a lovely partner who can help me with that. That's always a struggle. But for me, it's lack of purpose is a real pressure on me. And if I haven't got a purpose for Christmas, I It's not enjoyable.
I think we've all got to the point where we get fed up with people and we say, Oh sod it, I'm not doing anything this year. And we just do that whole cut your nose off to spite your face. And then it never actually comes to it. But yeah, I think the pressure of not knowing what to do is really difficult.
Yeah, that's something I've had to work out over the last couple of years.
Gary: So I get that, because I've now got three grown up children, two have got families, and it's like, who do you visit? Who do you do? What are they doing? What, how do you fit in? Everybody comes to ours, and now they don't come to ours, and they want their own traditions, they're creating their own traditions, and where do we fit in?
How do we support their traditions? [00:38:00] How do we keep house? And what if that person or that member of the family, that's where the pressure and ultimately can boil over into big arguments and that. So from my point of view, I'm now just going, just tell me where you want me and I'll turn up. Whoever, whoever asked first, I'm going there and that's what we're doing.
So it is a lot of pressure because you've got to appease everybody. Because that's what you end up doing. It's not actually making people happy, it's doing the least amount of aggravation. anD that's the point. So we're getting close to finishing up, so last question I've got. It's, you know, there's, well there's two questions.
But If you were looking and having a nice Christmas, what makes Christmas special for you?
Family. Family? [00:39:00] Peter can't say that after what he's said. Well, he can. Of course he can.
Benn: Of course he can. You can take away all the presents. You can get rid of all the other stuff. But as long as I got to spend time with my family, that would make my Christmas.
Peter: I think for me, it's certain individuals within the family, right?
It's I, I, I just like having a hassle free agro free life in general. And Christmas seems to be a point where. There's aggro and it's nonsense aggro right? You know someone ate the last sausage and you're like really do you need to fight over that? And and so they're
Gary: just excuses aren't they?
Peter: They are yeah they are but and it and it just kind of it escalates
Gary: the nonsense.
Is that not just part of your tradition? What eating the last sausage? No. Or people arguing over it.
Peter: Well, it seems to be, yeah, but it's, it's not one that I particularly like. So I think for me, it's [00:40:00] what, what makes Christmas, if I could have a Christmas where there was no arguing and, and during COVID that happened, I spent Christmas with just one.
Well, no, I got, I got to spend Christmas with just one relative and not like the 12. We had a
Gary: really lovely Christmas. But what would make Christmas for you is that we had a lockdown. Yeah, that'd be
Chris: lovely.
Peter: Yeah,
Benn: I think I genuinely, genuinely made a lot of people's Christmases lockdown. I think that really changed the dynamic for people.
I
Gary: think it took away pressure. Yeah, and I think it made people realize what they've got and what they haven't got and what they need
Chris: to do and what they
Gary: don't need to do as well. I think there was some value to that. What makes Christmas for you, Christopher? Do you know
Chris: what? I mean, you've got the family, you've got the food, you've got everything like but actually I think it's That time where everyone in the country just pauses for a day or two, you know, I mean, you have your birthday, but that's just for you, everybody else carries on, you have [00:41:00] anniversaries, everybody else carries on, but Christmas, the whole country just pauses for a day or two.
There's no obligation to, I mean, there's the Christmas obligations, there's all of that, but there's no life stresses that everything that's going on work. relationships and everything is just put to one side for that day or two or three, however long you spread it out for. And everybody's focused on the same thing.
Sometimes that gets too much and we all end up, everybody ends up fighting each other because they, you pushed it in too much. But the fact that everybody just, Stops and has that common
Gary: union almost all taking the same breath with just, yeah, it's
Chris: just that, that's the thing that I find most special about Christmas.
And it is nice, nice to do it with your family. I like Peter, I had a lockdown Christmas, but it was just me and my three children was the only ones that I could have because one of my kids got [00:42:00] COVID. And you know what? It was really nice just to stop, almost stick your finger up to the world and say, We're doing this today.
I think that's what's most
Gary: special about Christmas. No pressure. That's what we're talking about. There was no pressure. Peter was talking about no pressure. I mean, take
Chris: the Christmas pressures aside, but life pressures are put
Gary: away. So what stuck out? Well, I'm just been thinking, listening to you guys and you're right.
All those things are nice. But if I'm really, really, really honest, Christmas dinner. But at the end of the Christmas dinner, when I know I can't eat anymore is having Christmas pudding, but actually there's a trifle there as well, putting trifle in the same bowl as a Christmas pudding. And there's something else that I'm putting it in the same bowl and get free, putting all your desserts in the same bowl and just eating your way through it when you can't actually eat anymore and just keeping going.
But. It's a guilt free moment where [00:43:00] you can put anything in your bowl and nobody can say anything because it's Christmas. It's great. I love it. It's so true.
Benn: I mean, if we're talking food, it's got to be a cheese boarder. I love pork and cheese at the
Peter: end. Stack it as high as you can
Benn: make
Gary: it. I'm going to say something which might be offensive now to some people.
I'm not that keen on cheese.
Peter: You haven't
Gary: found the right cheese. No, no, cheese don't do it for me. But if you mix, putting trifle crispest pudding, the apple pie or whatever. Just putting it on them cream, cream, cream and custard. Amazing.
Peter: Got to have
Benn: some blue cheese. You got to have, you know, a nice glass of red wine.
It changes the flavor. Then maybe a bit of port. I
Gary: do, I do like the port and things like that. But yeah, I can take cheese or leave it. And mostly, and the strong cheese I don't like at all. You know, like the blue cheese and that. So I'm, I'm not on the same page. But desserts, yeah. [00:44:00] So last question I have, and then we're going to wind up.
But we might That was the last question. No, I said there was two. You know, jeez, dear oh dear. So the last question I've got, favourite song, favourite Christmas song, or hymn, or thing, or music.
Benn: Easy. All I Want For Christmas by Mariah Carey. I can rock around to that. Love
Chris: it. You'll hear it enough times.
Peter: And that comes
Benn: from working in the supermarket when I was young, as a teenager, because it used to be the song that we used to play, and as, like, supervisors on the checkouts we used to dance to.
Just being stupid. So it makes me laugh every time.
Chris: I don't know, I've got a
Gary: favourite one. You have to pick one. I think, I think when
Chris: they're, when they're, when you start hearing them, I go, Oh, this one. Oh, this one. Oh, this one. You know, I don't think, I don't think I
Gary: can choose. You can cheat and maybe pick the kids one.
I don't [00:45:00] know what their favourite is. Oh, well, I'm trying to help them out here. Peter, save
Peter: him. So mine, mine used to be Last Christmas by Wham! until I found out the Wham! the game. And then you have to try and avoid it. So that one's kind of gone away. But I do love the Jingle Bell Rock or Let It Snow because it's Die Hard and Die Hard is a Christmas movie.
I'm going to be
Gary: controversial. I agree.
Peter: Yeah. So I think Let It Snow for the Die Hard Christmas movie theme. That's
Gary: my favorite. Christopher, you still have come up with. My favorite actually comes back from my school days. It's actually Once in Royal David City. Really? Yeah. It's beautiful. You know, and I'm not much into music like that or hymns or that, but that sums it up.
Now, I'm going to add a supplementary question in now. Oh God, you won't stop now, will you? Peter started this with our favourite [00:46:00] Christmas film. Die Hard. Die Hard. I knew people would say that. Come on guys. It's got to be Home
Benn: Alone.
Chris: It's traditional. Home Alone? Yeah, I've got to go for Home Alone as well on that
Gary: one.
So, I can't remember the title of it. It's a real thing. It's got Marty McCutcheon in there and Love Actually. Love Actually. Ah, it's awful. It's a terrible film. It's such a bad film. It's terrible. Mate, I I love a bit of Love Actually. I like You can't go wrong with a bit of Love Actually. It's a bad film, but It is bad, but it is good.
But it's one of those guilty pleasures. We put it on, and it's always on nearly every single bloody day between now and Christmas. There's it, you can turn the telly on and find it somewhere. So I end up making my wife watch it, and it's just like, it's Christmas now. You know, okay. So thank you guys. It was, I think that was really entertaining.
And we might do another Christmas one before Christmas or whatnot. We've [00:47:00] got a lot of things going on, but I think there's so much more to explore around the impact of Christmas on us. And on people in general, but I think this has been a really fun and important podcast at this time of year. So thank you for me for taking part and sharing your thoughts around Christmas and the elf in the shelf would like to say thank you as well.
Peter: Thank you from me. Have a Merry Christmas for
Benn: everybody. Yeah, thank you from me. Merry Christmas to you all and see you at the next one.
Chris: Yeah, and thank you and goodbye from me and I hope everybody enjoys their Christmas this year no matter how they choose to spend
Gary: it. Thank you everyone and remember you can always look at Some amazing blogs on Inspired2Change.
biz. Thank you very much. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to the podcast that proves men do talk. If
Benn: you would like more information or support, then please visit Inspired2Change. biz
Peter: where you can learn [00:48:00] more about us and the Inspired2Change team.
Chris: And remember, the conversation continues on our
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