From the Streets of Johannesburg to Strength: Brian de Gruchy's Inspiring Journey Through Addiction and Mental Health
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of inspired men talk. And remember, this podcast is for the proof, really, that men do talk, and inspired men talk is led by everybody who comes on the show and everybody listens to the show. The biggest thing we wanna do is get men talking and show that men do talk. So first of all, let me introduce our sponsor, Mental Health in the Workplace, and this is being brought to you by Mental Health in the Workplace, what this episode is, and you can find them at ww.mentalhealthintheworkplace.co.uk. I'm gonna let Peter introduce himself and Christopher introduce introduce himself.
Gary Johannes:And before that, I'm gonna say our apologies to for Ben, who's not gonna be here on this episode. He's working away, so apologies. He'll be on the next podcast. Peter, do you wanna say hello and who you are?
Peter Ely:Yes. Certainly. Hello, everybody. Hello, Gary. My name is Peter Eley, and I'm a solution focused hypnotherapist based in North London.
Peter Ely:And I help people with fears and phobias and managing their self care.
Gary Johannes:Lovely. Christopher, who are you?
Chris Johannes:Hi. I am Chris or Christopher as some do refer to me as I can't not. That's fine. So I'm also a solution focused hypnotherapist. I'm also a landscape gardener.
Chris Johannes:So I've been in the trades for quite a few years, so I've got a good background there and also working with young people in the scalp movement as well. So I've got quite a few different hats that I like to wear, but today I'm coming to you as a podcaster. So, yeah, that's me. I'd like to get on with it.
Gary Johannes:Thank you. And I suppose I should choose myself. My name is, and I'm a solution focused hypnotherapist, part of Inspire to Change, and I work to help people be the very best version of themselves in all areas of their life. And I'm not gonna hand over to our today's guest. We're very lucky that we've got, an amazing guest on today.
Gary Johannes:His name is Brian. I'm I'm gonna let him introduce himself and tell us what his name is because I can't pronounce it very well. So, Brian, hello. Tell us who you are, where you're from, and your story.
Brian de Gruchy:Hi. Thanks, Gary. Hello, everyone. Thanks for having me on. My name is Brian De Grucci.
Brian de Gruchy:I'm from South Africa, but the surname is French, actually. Thanks for having me on. I'll just get it out there right from the start. I'm a recovering addict, and I've been diagnosed with bipolar and ADHD. So there's there's the hard part of the conversation done, I think.
Gary Johannes:Absolutely. There's so many people who are in that space, so it's always lovely to listen to someone who's been there, done that, and and wonderfully come out the other side to show that there is options. So let's let's hear how you got there.
Brian de Gruchy:So I guess I'll start where I am now, and that's in quite a good space, actually. I've come out the other end of it now, I think, which I'm very grateful for, and there's a number of amazing things that have happened along the way that led to this point. So, yes, there is hope. Yes. There is light at end of tunnel.
Brian de Gruchy:But at the time when we're in that tunnel, it can be quite sort of dark and lonely and scary place. And I'm I'm a bit of a tough guy. Well, I thought I was anyway. I've got a a tougher terrier. I'm from South Africa.
Brian de Gruchy:I had
Chris Johannes:a bit of a rough upbringing growing up on
Brian de Gruchy:the streets of Johannesburg where fighting for survival was the name of the game. But, actually, that's not really who I am inside. I'm I'm quite a vulnerable person. I'm a bit scared. I have fear and insecurities, and I'm a bit shy as well, believe it or not.
Brian de Gruchy:So I've I was involved with drugs for many years and went into rehab a few times and got clean. And I've been abstinent from drugs now for 11 years. Wow.
Gary Johannes:That's amazing. Well done.
Brian de Gruchy:Yeah. Thanks, Gary. But the only reason that that happened was because I made myself vulnerable, and I asked for help. I think that's probably the biggest message that I could give to anyone is just to ask for help. And it was difficult.
Brian de Gruchy:I had to shine a light on parts of myself that I didn't want to see and that I was running away from. And I got clean, and fast forward a few years, I did find myself in a position where I had started neglecting my self care. I was not going to the 12 step meetings that I used to. I had lost contact with my counselor and got caught up in the comings and goings of life chasing money, chasing the dream. And, incidentally, it was round about the time of COVID that all of that changed.
Brian de Gruchy:My wife had just started her own franchise of a travel business, and then COVID hits. And so that was kind of dead in the water, and the ensuing 2 or 3 years that came after that, 2 years for us, brought on a lot of financial hardship.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. I imagine.
Brian de Gruchy:Yeah. So I was out running my own little construction business, trying to support our family, and it just it wasn't possible. So, you know, we we got into a bit of trouble financially. And through all of this this time, I had been diagnosed with depression and was on antidepressants. I also had had a childhood diagnosis of ADHD, but that wasn't really at play at this point in time, or I wasn't consciously aware of it.
Brian de Gruchy:And then I had been backwards and forwards to the doctor. They had me on the maximum dose of antidepressants and were starting to sort of not really know what else to do. They thought maybe it was treatment resistant depression. They they were talking about generalized anxiety disorder as well because I my baseline of anxiety was very high. And then I started getting panic attacks as well, which was quite debilitating and very embarrassing, actually, to to to see a grown man literally collapse on the floor shivering in a heap is yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:It it was it was a bit humiliating actually and somewhat shameful as well, and that's some stuff that I've had to work on. But, anyway, the GP then suggested that they refer me to mental health services, and we started talking about ADHD as well. Alright. And so both that there was that this was good thing and and things are gonna happen. But, unfortunately, because mental health services is quite overwhelmed, the referral got rejected.
Brian de Gruchy:In the process of all of this, we ended up having another baby as well. I should say
Gary Johannes:do things by halves, do you?
Brian de Gruchy:No. No. No. No. So, yeah, that that definitely added another dynamic to the situation that made it a bit more challenging for us.
Brian de Gruchy:And then one day, I was at work, and I was pushing a wheelbarrow. Suddenly, it felt like somebody smacked me on the back of the leg with a baseball bat, and it turned out that I had ruptured my calf muscle Wow. Which in the grand scheme of things is not really a big deal. I remember looking around myself to see who was there and who had done this to me, and there was nobody there. I was completely alone by myself, but yet I could feel some kind of presence.
Brian de Gruchy:And without wanting to get too philosophical, I now look at it as being my higher power. Standing there with a big smile on his face saying, It's time to listen now. You're gonna get the message one way or another.
Chris Johannes:Yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:And that that was a significant turning point for me. I say that, like, it was a good thing, but it was absolute hell. I literally collapsed in a heap on the floor and started crying, and I knew that that this was as far as I could.
Gary Johannes:Quite recently, wasn't it, in in in terms of was that pre or post COVID?
Brian de Gruchy:Sort of mid towards the end. It was probably from now about two and a half years ago.
Gary Johannes:Okay. So although you've been dry clean for 11 years, this is a very recent factor.
Brian de Gruchy:The mental health side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:And, incidentally, I think just to add insult to injury, I was recovering from some broken ribs, and I had been on opioid pain medication, and I had just come off of that. So I think perhaps there was an element of psychological withdrawal going on at that same moment in time. But either way, I was a broken man, I needed help. And so I then just began asking for help everywhere I could. I phoned the mental health support line.
Brian de Gruchy:I took myself to the A and E. I was desperate. I was really, really desperate. And I ended up back at the GP, and then they put me on, tranquilizers for a couple of weeks just to keep me calm, which is not the ideal situation, for an addict to be in.
Gary Johannes:Not really. So I I'm really interested, Brian, of taking you backwards to you know, you was in South Africa, streets of Johannesburg, which is funny because that's my name as well. And I'm not South African even though I've got South African name. And wondering, you know, yes, you had a tough upbringing, so you're quite tough. You work in construction, so I imagine that it's quite tough.
Gary Johannes:When did you you know, what how did you get into drugs? You know, from a somebody sitting on the outside, it's probably never been down that path. I understand it intimately from the outside, but but never understood it from the inside because I've never been there. So how did you go find that pathway? How did it help?
Gary Johannes:Or
Brian de Gruchy:So I've never felt like I've belonged. Mhmm. It's like I've been I don't know how to describe it, really. Some kind of spirit or something walking around in some kind of person's body. I've never been very good socially in terms of friendship groups and stuff like that.
Brian de Gruchy:I was very badly bullied
Gary Johannes:Mhmm.
Brian de Gruchy:At school. Corporal punishments at school and in the home was quite a big thing back in those days as well, so it wasn't uncommon to get a hiding with the belt for doing something wrong. And so I had a lack of identity, a lack of belonging. I didn't know who I was, what my place was in the world, and I didn't feel safe or connected either. And that's not to blame anybody or point fingers, but that that was me and what it was like through my eyes.
Brian de Gruchy:And then I started becoming a bit of a nuisance child and causing trouble at school to try and win some rapport with the bullies.
Gary Johannes:Right. So the dominions often say that's how they got funny, or the troublemakers you join in with the trouble.
Brian de Gruchy:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And so that ultimately ended up in me getting kicked out of school, and I went to a new high school after that. My grades were never particularly good.
Brian de Gruchy:I had the potential to do well, but I just was not interested in school. I couldn't give a hoot.
Gary Johannes:How much
Brian de Gruchy:do
Gary Johannes:you think of that being part of where your ADHD was possibly driving that behavior?
Brian de Gruchy:Well, yeah. I mean, I had been diagnosed at the age of 7 with ADHD and was put onto medication for it. Whether it helps or not, I don't actually know. But when when I went to the 2nd high school, I decided at that moment that I was gonna become the bully Right. And turn things around, which is exactly what I did.
Brian de Gruchy:And to be fair, it worked. And through that, it it just sort of happened to be at that time when South Africa was transitioning from the apartheid era into the new rainbow nation. So all of the sanctions had been lifted, and the rave scene and the drug scene and all of that just descended on South Africa like an atomic bomb.
Gary Johannes:It's interesting you said that you became the bully. One of the things which I've learned probably more from being a therapist than being involved in, you know, being bullied or whatever, is I now understand that every bully has to be bullied. It's a you know, you you pass it down. If I'm being bullied here, I bully the next person down the line. So, you know, you can see that behavior is a survival instinct.
Gary Johannes:You know? If you're being bullied, you bully someone else. So I can see where that comes from.
Brian de Gruchy:Yeah. I think perhaps that's that sort of resonates with the idea of generational trauma as well, you know, and how things are perpetually passed down. So, yeah, in that process, I discovered drugs, and my progression through the different types of drugs was quite quick. Mhmm. And it was the first time in my life that I could honestly say that I was I felt okay, that I wasn't scared, that I felt like I belonged, that all of these conversations that were going on my head were suddenly quiet.
Brian de Gruchy:And as Gabor Mate says in one of his books that it's hard to get enough of something that just about works. You know? So Yeah. The moment I found that peace, I needed more of it.
Gary Johannes:So so I'm waiting for the others too to jump in and ask some questions, but they're not very good at it.
Peter Ely:We would, but you you haven't invited us in to talk. So okay. Let me let me jump I
Gary Johannes:I've just got so many questions, and I think, you know, there there's so many amazing topics he's bringing up.
Brian de Gruchy:No. There is. There is.
Peter Ely:So firstly, Brian, thank you very much for sharing with us. You know, I I can relate a little bit to the addiction side. I used to have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and, you know, it kinda can take over your your your life, and and it does. Right? And I'm glad to say that like you, I'm now in a much better place in relation to that.
Peter Ely:But how did you find that your addiction affected your day to day life and your relationships?
Brian de Gruchy:Well, in the beginning of my addiction, I was still quite young. I was only 14, 15 years old at this stage. And so I didn't really have much to worry about in the way of relationships with day to day life. I I left school, so it affected me in that sense. But that that for me was was fantastic because I wasn't interested in going to school anyway.
Brian de Gruchy:It just meant that I could go and hustle on the streets and take more drugs. But it did it did become problematic later on in life when I was in relationships, like, with, spouses and things. But, yeah, I think I'll come to that in a minute if that's okay.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. Of course. One one of the books I've, I've quite I'm quite keen on is about the difference between dependency and addiction, and they define it as you might be dependent on the substance, but actually the addiction is the feeling of being surrounded by like minded people by being in the bosom of some something in a group of people who accept you for who you are. Do you find, 14 when you're feeling a bit lost? Actually, those people who are raving, those people who were on the drug scene, actually just let you be who you was.
Gary Johannes:It wouldn't didn't feel so lost even though you were
Brian de Gruchy:So so there was that whole kind of lovey dovey hippie vibe with every with everything, and everyone got along, you know, and you were just there for who you were. But the other side of it was that because I was involved in drugs and started selling drugs as well quite early on that I became cooler than all of the bullies. So I had a bit of a a social status, if you will. So there was definitely those those elements at play as well. Anyway, I got involved in gangs and and all of this stuff, and it got the whole the whole drug scene in Johannesburg got a bit top heavy and started caving in on itself, and I was caught up in the middle of that and decided that it was time to change my life.
Brian de Gruchy:So I went into rehab for the first time, and that was the first time that I had it became exposed to 12 step fellowship. I got off the hard drugs and decided to get out of the city and train to become a safari guide in the hospitality industry and went to go and work on a remote game reserve on the arse end of South Africa. And it was some of the best time of my life. I had some experiences there that most people never even imagined were possible, but I was still drinking alcohol because I thought as long as I wasn't running around getting shots at and sticking needles in my veins and putting things up my nose, that it was okay because it was socially acceptable.
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:Then I was high functioning. I did really well. I climbed the ladder. I was quite successful, but it did eventually catch up with me. And I met my now wife while I was a safari guide, and we had to move back to Johannesburg because her son from her first marriage needed to start going to school.
Brian de Gruchy:And so we moved back to the city, and I found that really difficult after 10 years of working in the remote wilderness. And my drinking then spiraled out of control, and, basically, she just kicked me out and said, I don't want you anywhere near me or my child if you're behaving like this. I went to rehab again for the 2nd time and did all of that stuff all over again, but with a bit more maturity and a bit more willingness this time. And that did the trick. It got me off all of that stuff.
Gary Johannes:What what was the driving force behind that? I know you you you say your missus kicked you out, but you'd actually got to a point when you was more into the drug side of things and decided I actually gotta change. That's a massive step. Most people don't manage that so well, and then you found a new career done really well. And, yes, you were still drinking but functioning.
Gary Johannes:But what was this, you know, what was the real catalyst for the second go?
Brian de Gruchy:Because as they say in one of those fellowships that you can go to a meeting once and are we allowed to swear, by the way?
Gary Johannes:Yeah. You can do what you like.
Brian de Gruchy:So I went to one of those fellowships once, and they said, don't worry. You'll be back because this meeting will fuck up your using for the rest of your life. Mhmm. And that's
Gary Johannes:exactly what you're good. So so explain as somebody who's never been on that side of things, explain how that what that means because I don't know what that means.
Brian de Gruchy:Because in that alcohol or drug fueled state, there's either when I'm not drinking or taking drugs, I can't stop thinking about it and when I can do it and how I'm gonna get it. And then when I do have it, it's about how I can have more. There's no off switch. I don't know how. I don't know why.
Brian de Gruchy:It just one's too many in a thousand's never enough, as they say.
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:And so if if it was anything other than those two things happening, I was not a happy person. But I also knew in the back of my mind, because of that that phrase that I just mentioned, that this is not how life is supposed to be. There's there's something going on here inside of me. There's some kind of turmoil that I'm trying to get away from. And I don't know what it is, but I know that it's there, and I know that it's painful.
Brian de Gruchy:And I basically, what it boils down to and turned out to be largely the case with my mental health difficulties as well was the fact that I was trying to self medicate. I was trying to change the way that I feel.
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:Because I didn't like feeling these feelings.
Chris Johannes:I think that's something we've all heard many, many times from people who, addicted to, to anything, whether that be drugs, gambling, alcohol, you know, I think a lot of them say that it's self medication, you know, even the people who who take prescription painkillers and it's self medicating. And I think that's something a lot of people can resonate with. But when did you get to that point where where where you could function without that monkey on your back as it were, without that constant reminder of when you're neck next gonna get that drink, that hit, that drink, anything. Where you know, how long did that take you to get to the point where you can enjoy your life?
Brian de Gruchy:It was very much a process of peeling back the layers of the onion as it were. When when I went into treatment for the second time, I I was in an inpatient facility, and I stayed in a halfway house for 3 months after that to make sure that I had really good foundation. And I had to be quite careful afterwards about changing the way that I behaved. So for instance, I wouldn't go and hang out with mates at a pub. And I thought that at one point in time, I wasn't I couldn't imagine myself having a life that did not involve having a drink, or worse.
Brian de Gruchy:And it was just completely inconceivable to think of anything other. And I don't know when the specific moment happened, but it was a gradual process. And in one of the fellowships, they talk about the concept of just for today, and it really hinges on the idea of just letting go of the forever thing that I can't drink forever or I can't pick up a drug forever. What I just need to do really is be present, and in this moment and right now, I'll be okay. And I am where I am because I have big accumulation of just for today's.
Brian de Gruchy:Mhmm. Yeah.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. No. That's I I understand. So, I mean, you talked about using drink drugs and all these different things to handle your mental health effectively. And then 8 years or so, nearly 10 years after you've been abstinent off all of these things, your mental health comes and kicks you in the back of the leg as you put it.
Chris Johannes:You know? So so was that the point where maybe you you your your body, your mind accepted, okay, he's not gonna go and get another drink. We need to let him know that there's an we need to find another way of dealing with this now. Do you think that's something that maybe happened in that moment?
Brian de Gruchy:Yeah. That's exactly right. That's exactly what happened. Basically, if I I I like the analogy of that for for whatever the reasons were in my life, I built a wall around myself to protect myself. Traumas, experiences, what whatever we wanna call it.
Brian de Gruchy:And in so doing, I imprisoned myself. I became the prisoner of my own mind. Mhmm. And the stuff going on in my head is kind of like taking a rubber bouncing ball and throwing it against the walls of this the cell inside my head, and that's my thoughts and the chaos that goes on. And it just keeps ricocheting all over the place and becomes completely unbearable.
Brian de Gruchy:And so at that time with with the the calf injury and and all of that stuff going on, that that was the time where I realized now that this is actually what's going on with me, and I need to do something about this. Because despite the fact that I've been abstinent from drugs, the problem hasn't gone away.
Chris Johannes:Yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:And and that at its core, I need to work on this some more.
Chris Johannes:So just to clear things up, at this point, did you know you was bipolar? Was you diagnosed bipolar at this point,
Brian de Gruchy:or is
Chris Johannes:this where we're going?
Brian de Gruchy:Yeah. That's where we're going. So, yeah, we we've kind of gone full circle now from the drags and and and back to the mental health thing. Yep. I I was referred to mental health services, and they did lots of investigations, and they concluded that I have bipolar type 2.
Brian de Gruchy:There's 5 different subtypes. Mine is the more sort of depressive variation, and the manic episodes are not quite as hectic as what they are in some of the other variations. And they put me on antipsychotic medication, And, initially, that was really, really good because it just dulled everything out, and that bouncing ball in the head just kind of ceased to exist for a moment. And that that was a good feeling. It gave me a bit of relief.
Brian de Gruchy:It gave me the space to to take a deep breath and just kind of find myself again. But it wasn't very long before I realized that this was only gonna be a short term solution because in addition to not having the the panic and the loneliness and the fear and the chaos, there wasn't much joy or happiness either because those drugs are not very selective in terms of emotions. They just they kill the whole lot. It's all or nothing really. And they also have some pretty bad side effects, one of which is weight gain.
Brian de Gruchy:So I put on a massive amount of weight. And after time, some of my symptoms started to actually come back again. The racing thoughts and the the bouncing ball started to to gain a bit of momentum again. So I think, also, what happened was got caught up in this idea of trying to put a label on this whole thing. So I need to know what my labels are.
Brian de Gruchy:I need to know what my symptoms are. I need to put this thing in a box. And it then occurred to me, like, well, what what difference is that gonna make to anything really? And this this is about me, you know, my my feelings are mine and my thoughts are mine, but they don't define who I am as a person. And so I kind of decided not to to stay in the trap of thinking that, cool.
Brian de Gruchy:I'm gonna take a pull now, and that's gonna fix all my problems, and I can just carry on like that. I need to actually do the hard work here, and that the medication is only a stepping stone. It's not there to to make you know, give me the easy way out as it were, and I think that's a common misconception that a lot of people have. So I then started on this quest of exploring other areas outside of medication that could help me. And, interestingly, hypnotherapy was one of them, as well as counseling.
Brian de Gruchy:And, yeah, that's really then where the the good stuff started to happen, when I opened myself up and became sort of relentless in my pursuit of of wellness after that.
Gary Johannes:What type of therapy did you hypnotherapy did you have?
Brian de Gruchy:It was solution based. It was with with Holly, actually.
Gary Johannes:Mhmm.
Brian de Gruchy:So, yeah, we did we did do a few sessions, and that definitely did help it calm me down quite a lot. I started experimenting with different types of meditation and mindfulness. I started looking at exercise. I started looking at nutrition. And, basically, it's a bit of a cliche, but I broke myself down into 3 components, mind, body, and soul, and resolved to do something positive for myself in each one of those areas every day.
Brian de Gruchy:And if I was to look at diet, for instance, it wouldn't necessarily be a case of having to eat something healthy, but it might be making the choice to not eat something unhealthy. And I've started just gradually building on each one of those stepping stones or those blocks every day. And in the mind space, doing sorts of things like CBT and examining my values and my beliefs, my limiting beliefs, my people pleasing, those sorts of things, having quite quite an inward look. And then, also, looking at this whole spiritual side because there was a time prior to the mental illness where I had given up on all of that and said that I'm gonna see the world through the the lens of science, and spirituality and science don't actually mix with one another. So this is the side of the fence that I'm on.
Brian de Gruchy:I've subsequently realized that science and spirituality knit quite nicely together if you know anything about it.
Gary Johannes:Yep. We do. We we we work quite closely with the 2, one Yeah. Together.
Brian de Gruchy:So, yeah, I started also going back to 12 step meetings and became involved in that. At one point on this quest, I was watching a a Wayne Dyer documentary, and then he made a comment in there about being of service to other people. And it was a light bulb moment for me because one of the the pillars of the 12 step fellowships is being of service to other people. And so then I started going back to the meetings thinking that I was gonna help everybody. Yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:Only to discover that I got more help than anything I could ever have given. It was just that really reminded me what it's like to to be vulnerable, and that's become such a big part of my life now is doing the hard thing, doing the difficult thing, doing the thing that I don't want to do because it's scary. And to do that, I have to open myself up and make myself vulnerable, and that can hurt. And that's okay.
Peter Ely:Yeah. I think I think you've made a really, a really great point there that a lot of people think that the medication is gonna be the fix and that actually it's there as a support and that you actually have to put in the effort yourself. What was there anything else kind of you said you had this light bulb moment while listening to to Wayne Dwyer. What what kind of prompted you to go, right, I need to go back to doing the 12 steps? What was the catalyst for that for you?
Brian de Gruchy:Because it was perhaps a structured way to help me reconnect, having done it before. I've always felt safe with the 12 step programs. It was the one place when when in all those years back when I went into those meetings that I never felt like somebody or some kind of organization had a hidden agenda
Gary Johannes:Mhmm.
Brian de Gruchy:And was out to to take something away from me. It was the the one of the very few times in my life that I felt safe and, like, I could trust something and that its intentions were pure. So I think that was that was my motivation for wanting to go back there. And then also, sort of because that is a spiritual based program, it was it was a way for me to kind of navigate this this realm that I had turned my back on. And, also, just to add, having been a safari guide, I have a very keen love of nature.
Chris Johannes:Mhmm.
Brian de Gruchy:And I struggled very much in the beginning to find the concept of God like it asks us to do in the first three steps of a 12 step program. You know, you cut you come off bat sitting bruised, and you have to go in non final and it's like, what the hell? You know, this is asking a bit much. It's never gonna work, and I think it scares many people away, actually. I was lucky enough to because of my experience with nature to reframe it into something a bit more tangible and change the concept to mother nature and the world around me and the environment and my ability to to connect with nature and to be open and to listen to to the language that nature speaks to us, which is quite an amazing thing, really.
Brian de Gruchy:And that that was sort that bind with going back to the fellowship got me pointing in the right direction and a spiritual perspective.
Chris Johannes:You know, to me, all the things you've been talking about that you the steps you took when you decided, you know, I need to do the hard job. I need to make the effort to be better person, to be better for me. It's what we refer to in our therapy rooms, all 3 of us, as the 3 p's that, you know, those are the things you're talking about now. And those are positive actions, positive interactions, and positive thinking. You know, your mind, body, and soul is ticking all of those boxes.
Chris Johannes:You know? And going back to the 12 steps organization is that's your tribe from that that's what I'm taking from it. You know? That's your tribe. That's where you feel you're getting your most from those interactions, you know, and that's everything you're saying.
Chris Johannes:You've you've you've you've you've almost become addicted to looking after yourself now,
Brian de Gruchy:which is perfect.
Chris Johannes:You know? And you've you've summed it up in such a beautiful way for you. And I think people hearing you you I mean, I could listen to you talk all day. You've you've you've clearly very you've clearly been through the odds of this. You've you know?
Chris Johannes:But you've summed it up in such a beautiful way for you, and you you've you've openly said it was hard. You know? I think there's a lot of people out there that could learn from you and your experiences. They really, really can.
Brian de Gruchy:Thanks, Chris. To add to that, there's been lots of tears along the way. And I don't mean that metaphorically. I mean that as in tears running down my face. And it's a truly liberating experience to let yourself cry when you need to.
Brian de Gruchy:I think there's this huge misconception out there of of cowboys don't cry and and men don't show emotion and stuff. And and that's not true, man. And from a scientific perspective, when you cry, your body releases ox oxytocin, which is a feel good hormone anyway. So the, you know, there's there's no nothing shameful about having a good cry for a bit of a feel good hit.
Peter Ely:Yeah. Very true. And and very similarly, the word that kinda struck and came back to me when you were talking about the program was belonging. And it's almost like it's giving you back the belonging that that wasn't there earlier on when you were kind of going through the addiction phases is what it feels like to me anyway. So how has your life changed then?
Peter Ely:What's so you've you've taken on this this new mantle. You you're looking after your self care. What's changed for you?
Brian de Gruchy:Everything. Everything. And nothing. Because they say the more things change, the more they stay the same. You know?
Brian de Gruchy:So I'm still married to the same wife. I still have the same children. I still live in the same house.
Chris Johannes:I mean, that's a good point. When did she take you back?
Brian de Gruchy:I hadn't actually yeah. I hadn't got to that. So it was it was about 6 months after she kicked me out. She took me back in. And, yeah, it's been a bumpy road, but we are where we are.
Brian de Gruchy:And to be honest, she's been a huge pillar of support for me. And you we were talking about action, you know, and and she was one of the first people I went to when I asked for help. And it's a difficult thing to do to ask for help for a lot of people, because in order to to ask for help, we have to have an awareness of ourselves, and we have to be able to admit that something is actually wrong in the first place to to be able to take that step. You know? And and I I digress slightly now, but that was yeah.
Brian de Gruchy:I have a huge debt of gratitude to her because I wouldn't be where I am. And I know that different people's situations are different, and they might not have a partner that they're able to ask for help. But I can also say that every person along the way, doctors, nurses, therapists, counselors, hypnotherapists, everybody that I asked for help tried their best to help me. And there's a lot to be said for that. You know?
Brian de Gruchy:Yeah.
Chris Johannes:You know, what you were saying, sometimes through fault of the system or just circumstance, sometimes you didn't perhaps get the help that you needed when you needed it. And I think it's a huge testament that you kept going back for more help. You know? Even back to the first time you went to rehab, yes, it got you off the hard drugs, but you were still drinking, but you went back when you needed to. When the mental health services rejected your referral, you know, you went back again and asked for help when you knew you needed it most.
Chris Johannes:So I think that's a huge testament to you to and to tell other people, you know, keep asking for it. Just because you've asked for help once doesn't mean you've used up all your used up all your goes. You know? You can you can keep asking for help more and more, and I think that's a huge testament that you didn't give up.
Gary Johannes:I agree. And I I think one of the interesting things that I and I, again, I might be way off the mark here. I I've always had the opinion. I'm a bit of a rugby fan. So all of South Africa rugby people I've ever met have been, you know, the old fashioned men of men and you know?
Gary Johannes:And I and I just have an idea that you've grown up in a very masculine world, and masculine means no vulnerability because that's weakness. And you've actually come through that to use your vulnerability as strength, which it truly is. And you you've been okay to cry. You've been okay to go through those hard yards. But how much harder do you think it is when you've been dominated in your whole culture to be man?
Gary Johannes:Did you have to wrestle with that too?
Brian de Gruchy:I was kind of lucky in the sense that because we had moved to England, I was able to separate myself from an element of that physically and geographically. It is a very predominant cultural factor. You you 100% hit the nail on the head with that. And even in in my family still, but I guess that's where the whole idea of boundaries comes into play. And that's that if that's how other people want to be, that's fine.
Brian de Gruchy:I am not the status quo. I can use this South African rugby player kind of tough mentality in a positive way in terms of of not giving up and fighting my corner, asking for help when I know that I need it. And I think that that's a nice kind of reframe on the whole much of attitude of things.
Gary Johannes:Yes. Because because strong doesn't mean that you you can't be vulnerable. Strength is vulnerability. Yeah. And toughness is having that vulnerability and doing it anyway.
Gary Johannes:So that's that's amazing,
Chris Johannes:I mean, I think we could all ask you questions for quite a long time. I don't know. I think we're probably getting close to time here, aren't we? You know? But, yeah, you just one more thing off from me.
Chris Johannes:You mentioned just them boundaries, setting those boundaries. Now, again, earlier, you mentioned one of the steps and one of the things you had to do was separate yourself from those people going down the pub for a drink. How did you find that with those relationships you'd built with those that, you know, you felt like you fit with those people for the first time ever? Those enriched those initial people where you first started going down those dodgy lines and started go getting into those worlds that you felt like you fitted at the time, but clearly weren't good for you. How did you find cutting off those ties?
Chris Johannes:Was that was that a hard thing? You know? Were you was the people supportive of you, or were they trying to drag you back down with them?
Brian de Gruchy:They they were mostly trying to drag me back down. There were some very difficult conversations that had to be had, what I could almost sort of describe as breaking up a relationship in a boy slash friend context. Yeah. And that's what had to be done where when when the sort of dust settled and the the fog cleared, it was very apparent which was the correct way forwards and which friends were healthy and which ones weren't. And these things have a tendency to sort themselves out organically.
Brian de Gruchy:Mhmm. But I did need to make sure that I was going to be loyal to myself and that that was the thing that that was driving these decisions. With
Peter Ely:that in mind, do you have kind of a a daily routine that kinda keeps you focused?
Brian de Gruchy:I do, actually. My my time is very limited. We have 3 kids. I'm busy doing a life coaching course, actually, because I'm getting a bit tired of tearing my calf as a builder and so on, and because I actually just genuinely want to help people and share this experience with them. But in the small amounts of time that I do have, I do a 10 minute meditation in the morning when I wake up.
Brian de Gruchy:So, literally, the first thing I do when I open my eyes when I'm still in that kind of half asleep, half awake state. I do a 10 minute meditation. I've got a favorite go to that I like to use. And then every evening, the only place in the house that I can call mine for a short period of time is the bath. So I have a little candle that I light, and I burn some incense and have a nice bubble bath and either put some relaxing music or meditation or something like that on and just just have that time for myself.
Brian de Gruchy:Whenever there is any other opportunity, I like to exercise and do, like, Qigong stuff and stretching and yoga and those sorts of things. My my personal preferred method of exercise is martial arts because it's quite versatile. It's got a bit of fitness. It's got a bit of stretching, a bit of, you know, muscle building stuff. So whenever I get the opportunity, I do some of that stuff as well.
Brian de Gruchy:But, yeah, definitely, I have to I have to meditate. And and and just to be clear, I think a lot of people have this this idea that meditation is is going and sitting in a quiet place and quieting our mind and getting all zen like, and it's it's nothing like that. Our minds can't be quieted. So for for me, it's just a case of being able to have a few minutes to be still and just become detached from all of that stuff and watch it going on and and just put a little bit of space between me and my mind, and that's really what meditation is all about for me.
Gary Johannes:So to finish up, because we are really on the edge of time, if you was to give some tips to somebody who is at that crossroads where they're still addicted even if it's to life of eating too much or being a people pleaser, and they just need to get that fix of being light the whole time, or they're on alcohol or drugs or whatever. If you were to say, you know, one thing you can do to start moving into that direction where you're taking and you used a beautiful term earlier of honoring yourself. What's the first step for someone to take to move to where you are now where you're you're managing it beautifully?
Brian de Gruchy:So I think that usually when a person's in that place, it's a dark place, it's a lonely place, and it's not not very happy. But I can say with my hand on the heart, my hand on my heart, that you are in the best possible position that you could ever be in because that's the start of a journey, of self exploration and change. And many, many, many people on this planet will never even know or explore those parts of their selves. So there's there's so much to be gained from doing this, and it's really just about taking action. It doesn't really matter what it is that you do.
Brian de Gruchy:Just do something is the best advice I could give.
Gary Johannes:Thank you. If it
Brian de Gruchy:doesn't work, if it doesn't work, keep trying until it does.
Gary Johannes:Stick at it. Yep. Stick out. But, Brian, thank you so much. We're probably gonna ask you to come back on later in the, you know, early next year or something like that because, literally, Kristen is right.
Gary Johannes:We we could talk to you for hours. You do have a weird accent. You know? It goes with my name, not yours, but you know? But lovely to meet you.
Gary Johannes:And it's gonna, you know, what you've just said is gonna highlight so many people. You know, it's gonna be good. So thank you, guys.
Peter Ely:Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing, being honest with us, and being open with us. I know that sometimes that can't be hard, but it was really lovely to to hear your story, and to hear how you've come through it. So thank you so much for sharing with us.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. Honestly, it was a real pleasure. You've you tell your story with real honesty, and, you know, you've given some really, really good advice to some people who, I think, need to hear it. Thank you for pulling yourself away from your 3 3 kids for an hour or so to be with us. I know you should have the feeling.
Chris Johannes:So you you could pretend you're on the call for a bit longer if you want. We don't mind.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. He would have been in the bath if it wasn't for us, Chile. Last thing, if you if you do or if you're happy for people to connect with you, I don't know if you are, but if you're happy, how would people who found that story move in or would like to speak to you, how would they get a hold of you?
Brian de Gruchy:I would be happy to share my contact details with you if if you are happy with that. Otherwise, you can just help me out. I spoke Brian De Grucci. It's that simple, really.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. Yeah. So we we'll put that link on on our description of the podcast. So if people wanna contact you or friend request you on Facebook, that's fantastic. Thank you so much.
Brian de Gruchy:Thank you for having me on. It's been a real treat, and I hope it can help somebody.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. Thank you for and, we're gonna finish the podcast now, but we'll probably talk afterwards. So thank you from me. Goodbye.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. Thank you ever so much, and, thank you all for listening, and goodbye.
Peter Ely:And goodbye from me.
