Man Flu - What's that all about!
Inspired Men Talk - Man Flu
Gary: [00:00:00] Welcome to Inspired Men Talk for solution focused therapists born in four different decades who openly and honestly discuss their perspectives on the issues surrounding men's mental health, the things that stigma say we don't talk about. Hello and welcome to this week's podcast where The four of us are going to be discussing Man flu.
Gary: It's very topical at the moment, this time of year. And, it appears there's a lot of it going around, and even one of us, apparently, might be suffering from it. So, let's get into discussing man flu. So, we're going to go around to start with. Each of us are going to give what our interpretation of what we think man flu is, means, and anything about it.
Gary: Who wants to start? Go on, I've done a little bit
Peter: of looking into this, so I'll start. Go on then. And in case you didn't know, I'm the one that sounds like he's got the flu. So, I, I looked it up, I did, I did a bit of research on, on man flu. And I looked it up and it [00:01:00] kind of got this definition that's a cold or a similar minor ailment as experienced by a man who's regarded as exaggerating the severity of the symptoms.
Peter: And I think. That's, that's kind of the, the, this, this whole terminology of man flu is that it's a minor thing that's being exaggerated is the thing that's kind of caused it to have its own terminology. It's not, it's no longer just the flu, you know, the man flu is, oh you're all right, you should just be able to move on with life.
Peter: But actually there's, there's some research been done that shows that estrogen can help you fight the virus so that men can actually suffer. with the flu in a more worse way than women do. And that's, I think, you know, quite interesting as well. And I'll come back to that later on, I think.
Gary: Yeah, I mean, from my point of view, listening to what you just said, that first bit of the definition you've [00:02:00] seen, you know, on looking at, looking up, is about us exaggerating everything because we're men.
Gary: And the other one is a proper flu virus and how the body fights it and what chemicals we naturally produce as human beings to fight a genuine virus. For me, I think it's more about the term man flu and how it's used. How does it feel for you, Ben or Christopher?
Benn: I think, you know, it's It's become this term that basically says that when we're unwell we can't function and we need all the help and support in the world and everybody has to look after us.
Benn: When I think reality we just power through. But I'm not gonna lie, I do use it. I use it to my advantage sometimes. I've got man flu, have a bit of banter around it, you know, like it's man flu, it's awful. But it's just kind of put us in a box to say that men can't cope with feeling unwell. they kind of break down [00:03:00] and are dysfunctional, isn't it?
Benn: That's where it's all about. It's like a character flaw of men. We get felled by cold or flu and can't, can't function. A phrase I use, but it's something probably because Of the way it's been used around me when I've been unwell. Not sad, just
Gary: down tools then. It's interesting to hear you say that because like the three, the three other people on the podcast probably have relationships where there's an equal balance of male and female.
Gary: You have a balance in your household of two men. So does that double it up?
Benn: I think what it highlights is probably that we both turn around to each other and go, Oh, here we go. Listen to it. And then we just get on with our lives because reality is we can just power through. Yeah, but it's more, I guess, I suppose, the male female dynamic.
Benn: Is it different? I
Gary: don't know. That's what I'm saying. You don't see it from a male [00:04:00] female dynamic in the same way as I've got a partner, I've got a wife, I've been married for 40 years, so that would be a different aspect because you've got a male and female. And Peter, as I said, women with the virus have a different fighting mechanism, the immune system will be slightly affected differently to what a man would be if they had the virus.
Gary: And I just wondered, on an every day you've got a bit of a cold and you can't cope, you've got two men, so I imagine if you've both got a cold at the same time, the whole house falls down. In theory. In theory. Christopher, what do you take away from the terminology of man flu? Yeah, it's interesting
Chris: to listen to what you guys have been saying, and like Ben, yeah, I'm guilty of using that term myself.
Chris: It's alright, it's just been man flu, you know, I've been laid up and it's just because I'm feeling sorry for myself, so yeah, I've used it on myself many times. But I do find that sometimes when [00:05:00] you're maybe saying to somebody, oh, I've been quite ill for the last few days, and it tends to be, from my point of view, being the younger one out of the group, I think, it's older women.
Chris: that tend to throw that back at you. So it's like, oh yeah, I've had, I've been really, really poorly, not feeling very well the last few days, and it's like, oh, your man flu then, have you? Get on with it, mate, come on. And it always seems to be slightly older women, maybe women in their 40s or 50s, rather than my peer age group.
Chris: I don't tend to get it as much from them. So it's quite interesting to listen to you guys talk like it's something that is quite common in your relationship dynamics, because for me, it's generally outsiders And it's used as a way to sort of diminish what you're saying. It's like, oh, I feel absolutely terrible, got a full on headache, I was like, oh, it's just man flu, get on with it.
Chris: If it was a woman at it, they'd have to get on with it still. Sort of that sort of response to it. And I've never really seen a problem with it. You sort of just shrug it off and laugh it off. But actually, yeah, now listening to you guys talk about it, I [00:06:00] think it's interesting that it comes from an older
Gary: generation for me.
Gary: Very interestingly, both you and Ben have admitted you've actually used it to therefore perpetuated a minor ailment which you've exaggerated for your own benefit. Oh, oh, actually
Chris: I think it's more of a, I'm not going to admit how poorly I felt, so I'll just say I had man flu. Does that make sense?
Chris: Yeah. So, rather than say, actually no, I felt really, really ill. I'm just gonna say I was just mad for, I was only doing it for the sympathy, you know? Mm-Hmm. I'm not, I'm not as weak as I made out I want, does, does that make, do you know what I mean? So I think I've used it in that way before as well. So almost to say, no, I weren't that bad.
Chris: You know, I'm not, yeah. I'm not falling over. Don't, don't start. See me as
Gary: poorly and ill, so you reflected back what they expect to move away from the potential you might be vulnerable. [00:07:00] Yeah, I think so. So they expected you to say, you know, to have man flu. So you've said, yeah, me too. And you haven't admitted you've been more poorly than you have.
Gary: I think other than so. Yeah, absolutely. So Peter, are you vulnerable right now? No, I'm, I'm
Peter: a little bit throwy as you can hear. But I think I'm, I'm slightly different though. Cause I've, I've had this for a few weeks now. And. I don't perceive this as anything, it's, you know, I've got a bit of a cold and a bit of a cough and it's an annoyance, it's an inconvenience I don't consider it as, I don't use the man flu excuse I don't think I ever have unless I was really ill, and it was only when I was really ill that I would say I've got man flu because I think it was always, you know, you grow up and you're taught, you know, Just get going, keep going, keep, keep moving forward, you've got to keep doing.
Peter: And there wasn't time to be ill. So, um, you know, unless I'm hospitalised, I'm, I'm alright. [00:08:00] That's kind of my view of it.
Gary: Yeah. So you're not going to say you're poorly, until your mate, somebody else has taken that decision out of your hands? Yeah.
Peter: Yeah. So can I
Chris: ask you a question then, Peter? Of course. Do you think that this stigma around Man flu stops you from getting help when you should.
Chris: So you've had a cough for, what, three, four weeks now? Yeah, about that. All the adverts on the telly will tell you to go to the doctors and get that checked. Yeah.
Peter: Why aren't they? Yeah, it's a great question, and I think it partly, partly is that. I think it's partly that, you know, you're told, unless you're, unless you're falling over, you've got to keep going.
Peter: And so, you know, I keep going. And then I think partly is I don't want to get disgusting, but I know I'm coughing up phlegm, right? So, it's not a dry cough. The advert's all about a dry cough, so
Benn: But hang on, what colour's your phlegm, Peter? Oh my god! It takes a whole other dynamic here, you know. You can say it's [00:09:00] a dry cough, but I can say to you there's lots of different types of phlegm which have different indications to what illness you might have.
Benn: You
Chris: know, I can hear our listeners gagging right now. Yeah,
Peter: I was gonna cough and just show you something, but I won't do
Chris: that,
Gary: it's fate. Glad we haven't moved to the YouTube yet.
Peter: No, you're right, and it, you know, there comes a point where I have to say to myself, go to the doctors. But that's, it's been a case where I was, for me, it's been the same all my life.
Peter: You know, I was, I was quite ill with DVT, which is deep vein thrombosis, and it took someone to come and I couldn't walk properly and it took someone, a family member to turn around to me and say, what are you doing? Go to the doctors. And I ended up being hospitalized for 10 days. And I think it's that same kind of mentality that, you know, it's, You, you've got to keep going, you've got to keep moving forward, you've got to keep providing, being that provider.
Peter: We talked about it
Gary: before, I think, you know. Is this a physical version of men don't talk?
Peter: It could be, yeah, maybe. Or men deflect, you know, I know, I know a lot [00:10:00] of, a lot of men that I've spoken to that have gone through the same sort of thing, have been quite ill. but they'll, they'll use the old it's man flu, because they just know that
Gary: they've got to keep going.
Gary: It's interesting, if you, I, I like sport and things like that, like, you know, football, people roll around a lot, even if they don't actually get kicked, they still roll around, but rugby players, they get up and keep rolling, so you quite often hear a commentator, when somebody stays down in rugby, it's like they've got to be hurt, because they've stayed down.
Gary: Actually, quite often, they'll get up and play through serious injury. And it's only when they get hit so hard they physically can't get up then they start looking. But actually in football you get a minor injury they take you straight off because they know if you keep playing you're going to get worse.
Gary: And I'm just wondering whether the term man flu has made that whole expectation of what men have to go through and have to be, and Christopher used the term stigma earlier, [00:11:00] if that is now driving us to go, we can't actually show that we're more poorly. So I, someone, probably the older generation here, is going to be, you know, I hear the term man flu and I actually always find it derogatory.
Gary: I always find it someone trying to emasculate me or make light of what I'm really suffering. I actually, I, I don't do time off. I, I work nearly every day of the week, 12, 14 hours a day. I'm a bit, probably, I get told off more for not taking time off than I do for any time off I take. So, And Ben, just so that, because nobody can listen, Ben's now making a violin sound because poor me.
Gary: Well actually, I hear people going, I'm feeling a bit rough, so I'm not going to do it today. And I'm not sure whether that's right or wrong anymore. Because maybe I should have more time off if I'm feeling rough, but you get taught to work through it, but then [00:12:00] I now need to be really ill before I don't feel guilty about having time off because somebody will accuse me for faking it or exaggerating it.
Gary: So now, that's my problem. I now feel people, if I put my hand up and go, you know, I'm feeling really poorly today, somebody will dismiss it.
Chris: I mean, not to spark controversy, but this, the amount, you're completely right, it is, it is almost seen as a way to emasculate your problem and tell you that your problem is not as bad as you're making it out.
Chris: And I don't want to cause controversy, but if you was to flip that on your head and say there's a woman going through menopause, and you would turn around and said, and tried to belittle that in the same way, would that, I don't think that would be as acceptable. I mean, man flu is a socially obsessive term, isn't it?
Chris: It's completely fine to say you've got man flu,
Gary: but I put my hands up and I want to get Peter and Ben's view on this, but for decades, if not [00:13:00] centuries, things like the menopause have been completely laughed about and we have. As probably as men, particularly in a male dominant workforces, I've not considered how much the menopause will affect somebody's well being, physical and mental.
Gary: And we now do, or getting better at it. But you're right, the man flu is just becoming an acceptable social term to the fact that men are using it and, you know, about themselves.
Chris: I, personally, from a younger person's point of view, I would never consider diminishing a woman with an issue of that sort. I would never consider even turning around and saying that's not as bad as you're making it out to be.
Chris: Effectively, you know, that's what they're saying is it's, man flu is, you're poorly but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. I would never even consider saying that to a woman.
Gary: About, you know, and that's because you're a younger generation, you've been better educated. People of my [00:14:00] generation, and possibly younger people than me, but not as young as you, were, we never talked about it.
Gary: I remember people, women talking about things which are feminine in hush words. We're now. They're massively entitled and allowed to share openly how they feel. But I feel I get put down a lot if I share how I feel. With the, in the term of man flow. Ben, how do you feel about this? I
Benn: think, if you go back years ago, it was dismissed probably more from the misogynistic mindset that men were the bosses, weren't it?
Benn: You know, that's where it came from and what a load of rubbish that is. You know, women were seen as the problem, you know, I think education is definitely brought it to the forefront and made it, you know, better, better known. So I'm saying it's not really a big thing. You wouldn't think of saying things that perhaps would have been said in the [00:15:00] past.
Benn: I remember a friend of mine, she describes when she was in the police as a, an inspector. And there was an incident in the office one day and she just went at 50, 000 feet and was calling. Her boss, a fucking wanker in the office, and couldn't get away, that's all, she just got stuck on repeat in this loop.
Benn: You're a fucking wanker, you're a And then just grabbed her coat and bag and stormed out the office and went home. And it was like, because it was so out of the ordinary for her, everyone was like, what the hell is wrong? And that turned out to be a menopause, and it had just started. So you actually, you know, you see the physical implications of it are quite severe.
Benn: For women, and my sister's talked about it where she's just sat on the floor at home not being able to function. Take the kids to school, gets home, and then just sat on the kitchen floor in like a day.
Gary: And, and, and we take that seriously now, and there's a lot of, a lot of work to be done. I, I think there's probably more, more work to be done than there's ever been done, but it has been recognized.
Gary: But I [00:16:00] think coming back to man flu, has that improved over the last 30 years? I
Chris: think, if anything, it's gone the other way. I think, if anything, it's become so acceptable now to brush things off, and I think that's important, to brush things off and chalk them up to man flu. You know, I've spent the whole day in bed for two days.
Chris: Oh, you must have man flu. Well, no, actually, I'm depressed. But fine, man flu will do. Do you know what I mean? Does it go into the mental health? Does it start going into there as
Benn: well? Is that the male's menopause?
Gary: Well, there's another thing there. But Peter Do you think, because you've talked about having DVT and things like that, do you think having the ability to brush off any illness by declaring, Oh, I've got man flu, that we're now using it as a way of deferring, admitting any weakness?
Gary: I
Peter: think, I think there's certainly people out there that are, yeah, definitely. I know from speaking to some friends [00:17:00] previously that, that it was that they would use man flu as the excuse for not going to the doctor, for not looking for medical help and not seeking help. And I think there are, there's certainly people that will still perpetuate that, you know, because it is, it, and, and, and there's been studies on it.
Peter: I mean, there's there's a chap that does a study on man flu specifically called Dr. Carl Sue, and he's out in Canada. And he said that, you know, by the time men come to him, it's been so long, they've had a virus for so long, that actually it's broken their bodies down, and they've waited until they can no longer go to work to get to him, which is why men suffered worse with certainly the men in his study suffered worse with the flu than, than females, because females would seek the help earlier.
Peter: So I think, yeah, there's, there's something in that, that men probably aren't. aren't seeking help because you don't want to be seen as weak and it is
Gary: that thing. But I think the question I have is, [00:18:00] is have we, in my head, it was a term used to emasculate men when women weren't given, they had to fight for everything regardless because men were so, you know, terrible in the way we, we, we saw women as and treated women in the workplace.
Gary: And it's like, well, I have to come in, I have to go through this, I still have to take my kids to school, and I'm suffering, you've got a bit of a cold in your, you know, your quain, that you're poorly, so there was, but then men have seen, have men seen it, and gone, oh, actually, I could just declare this, and I then, then, then nobody's going to ask me any more questions, nobody's going to check up on me, if somebody says, I've got man flu, they might be depressed, but I'm not going to push it any further, it's like, oh, They've got Banflow.
Gary: So they can stop people supporting them and asking them questions because they've used the term. So [00:19:00] have men adopted it?
Peter: Yeah, I think definitely some men have. I think, I think that's, that's quite obvious because there's a lot of, a lot of other issues that people have and a lot of other things that they go through that they get to breaking point before they come up.
Peter: And they will have started off as, I'm all right, I've just got a bit of man flu. So I do think men use man flu as a bit of a defense mechanism almost. to avoid talking about some of their other issues and some of their other concerns, especially when it comes around to mental health, because it's still that big, it's still that big scary thing, isn't it?
Peter: It's still that big polar bear, as we would say.
Benn: I definitely think the mum flu has added to the problem of men seeking medical help for different signs and symptoms. I definitely think, you know, I can't, is it something like 30 percent or something? I can't remember the exact statistic, but of men don't go to their GP for health concerns.
Benn: we're in November. That's why [00:20:00] November was brought out. Every, you know, a big part of it is raising the profile of men's mental health. And, but also, Other health conditions, prostate cancer, testicular cancer, all of that, because we inherently now don't go to the GP, or when we do, we go, probably go with a shopping list, and the GP goes, ain't got time for all of that, because we've stored it all up, and you get to deal with one thing off the list, and then that kind of puts the list at the back of the queue again, and you just carry
Chris: on.
Chris: Do you know what, it's interesting you said that, the shopping list thing, because I know that I'm guilty of that. I'm guilty of sitting on problems for months and months and months and then I'll go to the doctors because I have to and it'll go, Oh, while I'm here, this has been bothering me for six months.
Chris: This has been bothering me for a couple of weeks. This is, and then they sit there and go, we, you'll have to book another appointment because, and it's like, Oh, I'm bothered then, you know, so that's, I've never thought about that before, but actually I'm guilty of that. I'll just wait and wait and wait until I have to, and then while I'm there, I'll mention these other few
Gary: things.
Gary: [00:21:00] How far has that gone? So, I remember people my parents age, my grandparents age, they would die from things like testicular cancer, and prostate cancer, and other more men related illness, physical illness. And they would have terrible issues, but they would never seek help. Less people have that. We, we still have a major issue of men, you know, we, we see on, on everywhere that women are continually having breast screening and they're told to check and check and check.
Gary: Men don't. Men, you know, very few men check for testicular cancer on a regular, very regular basis. And very few men will go to have a check for prostate cancer. Because it's a physical thing they might have to go through. I think
Chris: the education, I think the education on that is getting better. The awareness is definitely getting better.
Chris: I certainly, if I found anything untoward, I would go and get it checked without hesitation. [00:22:00] You know, and that's because of the education they've put out there, all the campaigns they've put out there has made me aware. I can't honestly say that I'm ridiculously somebody who checks for things like lumps and bumps.
Chris: But if I notice something untoward, I wouldn't hesitate, you know, and that is due to all the campaigning they've done. So I think that is definitely getting better. I think there's a bit of mentality change. But I just wonder, all the things we're talking about, is Manflu the new way of saying man up?
Chris: Because we don't say man up anymore, because we've appreciated that that's not right. That's that degrades men's mental health, saying man up. So we've, we've, we've got over that, and we've already established that that's not acceptable anymore. Is man flu just the same? Is man flu just another version of saying man up?
Chris: Yeah, I think it is. I'm
Peter: not, I'm not so sure, because Man Up was something that was said to you, whereas Man Flu is something that people sort of own themselves. So I don't know, maybe,
Benn: but I'm not sure. Yeah, I, I When that person comes along and goes, Oh, is it [00:23:00] Man Flu? Yeah. That's basically saying, Man that I can't.
Benn: Yeah.
Gary: Yeah, I, I, I, I, thank you because I hadn't seen that perspective. But actually are we being told like, you know, get more definition with this. Are you ill? Are you exaggerating? So it's, you know, if you're pulling a fast one and going, Oh, got a bit of a sniffle, Oh, I've got man flu. I can't do anything. Or are you actually ill?
Gary: I think that's another
Benn: conversation as well though, isn't it? Because society, colds make you ill, but society dictates you've got to get on with it.
Gary: So what's ill?
Benn: Well, that's the question, isn't it? You know, you're, you're ill when you're, when you are suffering a cold, you could be really unwell. But the minute you say to someone on the phone, I've got cold, there's no expectation for you to phone in sick, there's an expectation to get your arse in the office and [00:24:00] carry on working.
Benn: Yeah. Whereas if you say I've got you know, diarrhoea and vomiting. Oh Christ, stay
Gary: at home. Yeah, well Peter's on the podcast today and he told us because I've got a cold. And it's like, so what? Yeah. We're doing a podcast. If he'd told me he's, he's like got a terrible stomach bug, it would be like, okay, that would just disrupt everything we're doing.
Gary: We'll do it another day. Do we, should we pause
Benn: it, Peter, and you can, we'll do this another day? To be fair,
Peter: he would have told me just to go on mute for those moments, really, wouldn't he?
Benn: Yeah, you'd be told we've got to record it today, end of.
Peter: But I remember like, there was a time when I was quite ill. And I think this would be a good test for every man to see if they're genuinely ill or not. And I got taken into one of these health shops and someone said, Here, I'll buy some Manuka honey.
Peter: And I bought it and paid for it, didn't even notice what it all costed. And it turned out that that honey [00:25:00] cost me 40 quid. Yeah. And I didn't realize. Now, you've got to be ill if you don't realize that honey has cost you 40 quid. And that might be the test to see if you're actually
Gary: ill or not. Well, there's an old test of how to know if you've got flu, isn't there?
Gary: What's that? If you put a 20 note on the floor. Right. Or somebody's dropped a 20 note, if you can pick it up, you ain't got flu.
Gary: Because sometimes I've been so weird with that, I couldn't pick a 20 note off the floor. Yeah, yeah. And actually, that means anything less than that, you're exaggerating. And
Chris: you know what, that's actually a good point, because there is always this it's almost like a competition, isn't it, when it comes to flu season?
Chris: It's like, did you actually have the flu or did you just have a cold? I mean, that goes across the board, men and women. It's like, if somebody will come in, I had a week off, so I had terrible flu. You didn't have the flu because I've had it and it was worse than what you had. You know, I think that's a big thing, isn't it?
Chris: Everybody quite often puts the in [00:26:00] a box of you can't have had the flu. You weren't that bad. You know, so
Gary: he's interesting and absolutely, and then you get those people who are really don't want to let anything down so they will still go to work with, you know, they're on their knees like Peter couldn't walk until he got hospital, you know, he got checked because he was bullied into it by people who cared about him and then they said in hospital now, and we see that where people push through it because they can't, you know, Not do that.
Gary: It's who they are. I think there's a bit of an edge to that. Yeah, but then people around them go, Well, you can't be that ill. But
Benn: also, I think there's another player here, attendance management policies, because in businesses with attendance management policies and their sickness policies, if you're off and you're sick too many times, you end up in the trouble.
Benn: You end up in a case conference, you end up on performance [00:27:00] management. And so I think there's another side of this is that people turn up when they really shouldn't be at work for fear of repercussions. And we've created this culture where actually. any form of sickness is bad, you
Gary: know. I think you're right, definitely right, and I've had that conversation with people before, but it's interesting because I would go into work, you might say, if I was, you know, I run my own business, but I would still show up because I wouldn't want anybody to accuse me of having man flu.
Gary: Which isn't as official as what you're saying, but I wouldn't want to be known as that person who's always, you know, exaggerating, got a cold. And you see, with mental health in particular, the stigma is pushed up because we give people nicknames. Oh, that's Sick Note. You know, he's always got a cold, he don't come in or, you know, oh, he had flu 15 years ago and he was off for a week.
Gary: Yeah, we nicknamed him Sick Note. He hadn't had a day off [00:28:00] since, but he's now named Sick Note. So he now can't have an illness. Because they go, see, that's why we call you sick now. We haven't been off for 15 years. But the stigma follows that person around over and over and over again. And actually new people go, oh, you're the one who's always ill.
Gary: So I've never been ill. You get those people,
Benn: don't you? I mean, I've, I've never had a day off in, in my entire 25 years in this job. Well, more for you then, because you must be running yourself in the fucking ground. You know, if you are ill, have a day off, for
Gary: God's sake. But they hold it quite
proud,
Chris: don't they?
Chris: Oh, they do, yeah. And like you say, if you have a sniffle, it's like, well, you've got to get on with it. I do. You know, you can't, everybody doesn't walk to the same beat, do they? But yeah, they do, they hold it quite
Benn: proud. But I think, you know So if you look at, I was going to say, I think if you look at that from where we come from, a perspective of mental health, what the damage that they're potentially doing to themselves mentally from the fact that they don't get the adequate rest, they don't get the [00:29:00] recharge that their bodies need, and actually are probably just causing themselves long term
Peter: issues.
Chris: Absolutely. But I don't think you could ever tell some of these people, you know, but you have got the other side of this. I mean, we're talking about how we're not allowed to show that weakness of being ill because of. the repercussions that we might get. But what about the people that are using man flu as an escape, as an excuse, who are actually hypochondriac a little bit, you know?
Chris: What's going on in their mental health to make them do that? Yeah, we don't know. We're waiting, Chris.
Benn: Tell us.
Chris: I haven't had a sick left us all in suspense. I haven't had a sick day in 15 years.
Benn: Oh,
Gary: there we go. If that was true. Hey so, so I mean, when we look at, you know, we're all professional therapists and we all understand a lot of our neuroscience and we know that if someone's mental health is compromised in any way, their [00:30:00] immune system.
Gary: is equally compromised. It will be affected by their stress levels, by their depression, by their overwhelm, by their workload. And therefore they'll be more likely to be ill. So, yes, you do need to take that time off when you're feeling unwell to prevent it becoming a bigger thing. But then if there's performance management, or there's stigma around being called, oh, it's Manflow, I now won't take a day off in case somebody accuses me of it.
Gary: So I'm damaging my mental health, reducing my immune system. Now I'm going to get really ill. Yeah, I
Chris: mean, the angle I was kind of going to was, are these people sitting there saying, Oh, I've got sickness. Oh, I've got the flu again. Oh, I don't feel well. Are they actually just hiding? Are they suffering with depression and other things like that?
Chris: But it's so easy just to say, I've got man flu and then you'll, and then you'll, I can hide. in [00:31:00] my cave. And they maybe don't even realize that's what's going on. But I think the majority of people would prefer to be going out and going to work. They don't want to be off work for no reason. So they need to latch on and come to it.
Chris: They can't say, Oh, I can't come into work. I'm feeling sad. Without
Gary: a doubt. I think if you look at most corporates, if somebody contacts the office and says I can't come in because I've got stomach flu, I've got this issue, that issue, that people go, oh, I don't come in then. If, and it's easier to say I've got.
Gary: Sickness and diarrhea, then I've got depression or I couldn't come in today because I've had a panic attack on the trains or I've gone home, they'll go, I've got such a bad stomach and they will use man flu or variations of that rather than adding the value of, I've actually got a mental health issue because people will Except physical illness, they won't [00:32:00] necessarily, the stigma is still very high around mental health.
Gary: And quite often the stigma is about what we have used on other people, and now it's going to be pointed back at me, because I've not been the best person to treat other people with mental health really well. Now I've got a hit issue, I can't admit to it, because it's going to turn back on me. So I've got a, I've got a bad stomach.
Gary: No, I've got anxiety, but I've got a bad stomach because I can hide that. So I, I, that definitely happens, I think. I think definitely
Benn: qualified as a therapist changed my outlook and the way I deal with people who say they are struggling with stress or can't cope. From where it was years ago, because it very much the dynamic, particularly in the police was what's wrong with him.
Benn: I've got no resilience. Just, you know, they need to get a grip, sort themselves out. And then I qualified and [00:33:00] then some of my staff. started suffering with stress and I changed my approach entirely and I put my whole heart and soul in to getting them back on track and giving them all the support that they could possibly have, which they have all been incredibly grateful for.
Benn: But, you know, three or four years prior to that probably would have been along the lines like everybody else in the
Gary: culture that you're in of Man Up. So coming back to something what Chris said earlier, is Manflu the new Man Up in some cases? Yeah, I think it is.
Chris: I think, I think that's where we're going with it, yeah,
Gary: if we're not wrong about it.
Gary: So we've moved it from when it first probably become quite popular of a way of counteracting and using it to emasculate or to equalize, you know, you don't take me seriously, I won't take you seriously, sort of thing. I think in my generation that's how I felt. It balanced it a little bit and now men have gone, oh, I can use that either.
Gary: To hide behind and not talk about mental health issues [00:34:00] or we can say to people, I think you're just making a meal out of this. Is it man flu? Yeah,
Chris: and I think when we just say about ourselves, I think what we're saying is, it's fine. I just need to man up a bit because we get what you're saying that about ourselves as well as other people.
Chris: And I think that's what we're saying when we say, oh, it was just man flu. Oh, I just need to man up a bit and get on with it. And I'm, I mean, I know we're probably cutting close to time now, but something's just come into my head. It's the time of year where the kids and things are starting to get poorly and bugs and sniffles are all going around.
Chris: Do you think this whole gotta plow through stems back from when we're at school? Because unless my kids are throwing up or sitting on the toilet, I'm very much encouraging them to go to school. With a cold or if they've got a sniffle or a bit of a cough, it's like, well, you'll be fine. You need to get to school.
Chris: You'll feel better. So does it come from that sort of, we put that into people from a young age and I'm still guilty of that now with my kids. I will still say you've just got to crack on and get on with it. You [00:35:00] can't just not go to school because you've got a sniffle. You know, to be, to be quite blunt, that is how we do it.
Chris: I
Benn: don't think that does them any harm either. I'm a big believer in creating some resilience. You know, you have to have a degree of resilience around this stuff. Because otherwise, you know, people become the person that does take the piss out of. Being ill every 20 seconds or the hypochondriac who's searching Dr.
Benn: Google every 30 seconds and thinks they're going to die tomorrow because they might have got some weird illness. sO I think you have to do what you're doing when you have kids and building the resilience to
Chris: keep going. Absolutely, and I think it's, it's that, teaching that borderline because the world still turns regardless.
Gary: I'd say. Yeah, you're right. Sorry, I interrupted you. Well, go on. Well, I think it's about two things then, because I actually totally agree with that. You should, if you can, you should. And you shouldn't see the first obstacle as a reason not [00:36:00] to. And I think the biggest difference is Is if you know someone really well, you know when they're really poorly or not.
Gary: So if you've got a cold, I know Pete's got a cold, but I know him well enough that it'll turn up. If he was ill, Pete would say, Amir, I can't come. And it's as simple as that. And some people don't, you know, because they don't want to let themselves down, or people down, or their values down, they will plow through.
Gary: And it's not necessarily healthy. But as a parent, as a carer, as somebody who's very close to someone else, it's about listening. And I think you can absolutely tell the difference between someone who is a bit iffy, a bit poorly, but can still do what they need to do, and somebody who needs to actually sit down and stop.
Gary: And we're either not listening, Or we're making the excuses, so if I'm really poorly, I might go, I've got man flu, so they can't see I'm really poorly. But actually, people who know me [00:37:00] really well will be able to tell whether I'm bullshitting or not. Yeah.
Chris: And I think that's a good point, because with your own children especially, you do know.
Chris: You do know when they're well enough and when they're not. I think sometimes, I think you touched on something really good there was it's not some, if you can do it, you should do it. But if you can't do it You should be able to say why you can't do it. And I think you should be able to say that without any fear or intimidation or degradation,
Gary: you should be able to say why.
Gary: And then the term man flu strikes where he puts that on the back seat for me. Yeah, yeah. It might not for everyone else, but for me, somebody says you've got man flu, then either they don't trust me, they don't believe me, or they're just saying, Oh, you're just weak. Yeah. So then I have to keep working because I've just been judged as A liar or, or weak, or both.
Benn: But also, you know, I think there's a, you know, different trades and stuff that are out there. Being unwell, for people who [00:38:00] operate big machinery or stuff like that, if there is enough of distraction, you know, like the airline industry, for instance, there is absolutely no negativity around the fact that if you call in sick because you're unfit to operate the
Gary: aircraft.
Gary: Absolutely, yeah. Well, just imagine a brain surgeon with a sneezy type cold. I mean, you wouldn't really want them operating on your brain, would you? And then sneezing halfway through a very delicate piece of work. You think of
Benn: that cold with that banging headache at the front that you get where you just kind of feel like you're in a daze and people force themselves in, but is that right?
Benn: Is it safe? Probably not for some of the industries out there. If you're sat there just selling, you know, stuff without the function of any risk to a degree. then that's maybe a different take on it.
Chris: Do you know what, you maybe just think of something. Never considered man flu when Covid was a problem. You know, it was.
Chris: Never, it was never just take the chance, or it might be man flu, crack on anyway, when we had a pandemic on our hands. [00:39:00] And I'm hearing that start to creep back in a lot now. Somebody's got a cold, it's like, what am I, COVID?
Gary: I've got that going on now. So I obviously lecture and run a number of the hypnotherapy schools.
Gary: And we've now got people coming in I've got a cold, I'm testing for COVID. And I'm not going to come in until I know I've got, I've got a negative test. Because, you know, I don't want to spread it. I don't want to pass it on. And I've got a duty of care to every other student. So if somebody says they've now got a cold, I have to say don't come in.
Gary: So we're going,
Chris: kind of going the other way with that now of, if you've got a cold, you've got to crack up. Now it's, well hang on, everybody else's health isn't. Jeopardy here now, and every flu and every cold has always been like that, but we're only just now seeing it off the back of a pandemic. So it's interesting.
Chris: Is man flu still thrown about as much as it was pre pandemic? I mean, I've already started hearing it this year, to be fair. So I think [00:40:00] it is. I think we're
Gary: already getting straight back into that. Peter said it earlier that you've got man flu, so yeah. Yeah.
Peter: There's adverts about it still. I've seen, I've seen a couple of adverts around it.
Peter: So it's definitely coming back. The terminology is definitely
Gary: coming back. Well, man flu. So is the adverts positive for men that are, they're suffering or they're exaggerating their suffering?
Peter: I think it's more about the exaggerated side of it, if I remember correctly.
Gary: So it's okay to do it on adverts to go, I was okay to use the term man flu.
Gary: Well, I
Peter: don't think so,
Gary: but I mean, it's out there. But it's, it's general dialogue now. I
Chris: mean, to be fair, I've seen cold and flu medication that says, even treats man flu on their adverts. So it is, it is used as a, as a common
Gary: language. So to finish off, cause I think we're nearly should be finishing now.
Gary: Just going to, is the term man flu [00:41:00] helpful? Sorry, we're going to just go and start with Ben, Peter, and then Christopher. Ben, is the term man flu helpful?
Benn: No, but the little bit inside me that's like the little naughty child is going, but I still like it and it's still
Gary: funny. Okay, Peter, is the term man flu
Peter: helpful?
Peter: I don't think so. I think it's, it's something that people can use to hide behind when there are actually bigger and more serious issues. And if we just say you've either got the flu or cold, Or there's something else that's more helpful.
Gary: Christopher, is the term man flu helpful?
Chris: You know what, after you lot saying that, it feels like the obvious answer is no.
Chris: But actually, I think there is a place for it still. I think there is still a, I think we need to be more aware. Of when we're using it. It's a bit like anything, isn't it? It's social intelligence. We kind of come back to that quite a lot. I think we need to be more aware of when we're using it. But I think there is still a place for the term, you know, I [00:42:00] mean, as Peter said, technically, it's a real thing.
Chris: So I think there's still a place for it. And I think it's sometimes a bit of harmless banter. But yeah, I think if somebody is using it as an avoidance. I think it's not helpful at all, is it? It's not going to be helpful, but yeah, I'm still on, I'm still a bit both, on both sides of the fence there.
Gary: He's on the fence.
Gary: He's on the fence. I actually, personally, and it's a personal view, I think it's derogatory, I think it emasculates people, and I actually think quite often it's used by bullies. I think you're right
Chris: on that, that's where I
Gary: say, yeah, it's in both worlds. I think it can be really easily weaponised as a bullying tactic, however, it's an everyday language, so that term social intelligence is something which is probably massively lacking in society nowadays. But yeah, I personally don't like the term, and I [00:43:00] don't think, and I think all the other things everybody said is completely right, but personally I think it's an easy form of bullying.
Gary: Because most of the people I've ever heard say it, who just say it, rather than, we talked about banter before, the difference between me and Peter having a laugh, or Ben and Peter having a laugh, and people just saying it, they're using it, there's a potential for that. And I think, going on to what you've all said, that there's a, opportunity to hide behind the term when we can use it to get out of jail of admitting our own frailties and vulnerabilities, particularly with mental health circumstances.
Gary: So I think it's been a really different and interesting subject today. And ultimately, I think this is possibly the first time we've all had slightly different conclusions on the view of what Manflu is. of any subject. Yeah. So, yeah. So, it's thank you from me. [00:44:00] Thanks
Benn: from me. And thank you from
Peter: me. Thanks for listening.
Gary: And thanks for listening from me. Yeah, so that's us going to wrap up the MenFlu. We're all now going to go off and get some herbal remedies to help us along with our own situations and conditions. So see you on
Benn: the next one. If anybody is suffering, go to www. ivegotmenflu. com
Gary: Okay. On that note, I think we should call it.
Gary: What did that used to say on that bombshell? It's the end of the show. Be happy, be
Chris: healthy, and get well soon, isn't
Gary: it? Yeah, absolutely. But actually, on a serious note, it's anybody needs anything. Any support all of us are here for anything psychological, you know, we're all here, you can find us at inspired2change.
Gary: biz. Thank you very much. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to our podcast that proves men do talk.
Benn: If you would like more information or support, then please visit inspired2change. biz,
Chris: where you can learn more about [00:45:00] us and the Inspired2Change team. And remember, the conversation continues on our social media, Inspired Mentor.
