Not Just Surviving – Thriving: How Pazbi Turned Pain into Purpose
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Inspired Men Talk. And, again, we have some fantastic people to talk to today. There's obviously me, Peter Eley, solution focused hypnotherapist who works with people with fears and phobias. And with me today, I have Ben Baker Bollard. Good morning, Ben.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Baker who? Bollard?
Benn Baker-Pollard:to work in the police, but I certainly don't sit in the street as a cone in direct traffic, mate. Hello, everybody. Yeah. So Ben Baker Pollard, Sunil, the solution focused hypnotherapist, and, yeah, looking forward to today's guest.
Peter Ely:Fantastic. Thank you, Ben. And also with us, as always, is Gary Johannes. Gary, good morning, and welcome.
Gary Johannes:Good morning, Peter, Ben, and Hazabi. However, how do you say that? I don't know how to say that. He'll introduce himself better later. Like, Peter has already told us, I'm the one who makes all the mistakes, but that's fine.
Gary Johannes:I'm a solution focused therapist, practitioner, trainer, and here to give the old perspective on everything within the community.
Peter Ely:Fantastic. Thank you. And perfect mistake as well. Because our guest today is the very amazing, very lovely, Pasby Zavatsky. Hello, Pasby.
Peter Ely:Good morning.
Pazbi Zavazki:Good morning, everyone. Cool.
Peter Ely:Thank you. Thank you for joining us, Pasby. So Pasby and I know each other. We've met through networking groups. And, hopefully, you have what I think is a fantastic story to tell about your life.
Peter Ely:And I was wondering if you would just start by introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about that life story.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. Of course. So as you said, my name is Pazby, Pazby Zavatsky. So it's short for Panayiotis Zvigniew. That's my first name.
Pazbi Zavazki:Double barrel. Couldn't get, like, a Anne Marie kinda situation. Nice and short. But yeah. So I got I inherited both my grandparents' names, so I'm half Greek, half Polish.
Pazbi Zavazki:And I was I was born in Greece back in '91. And I moved here to The UK when I was about five, and I learned English from a Walkman cassette tape that my dad got. Well, that he got an American one. So I learned English in I learned American English here, so I still say it's like trash sidewalk and got taken the piss out of during school. And I'm like, it's not you know, it's an achievement to learn English so quickly, primary, but then you get made fun of and you don't even know why.
Pazbi Zavazki:Saying salmon salmon instead of salmon, and then you're like, oh, that doesn't know how to speak. But, yeah, when I when I when I turned about seven, just the seven just before my eighth birthday, I got diagnosed with stage four leukemia. It was a non Hodgkin's lymphomas. I had a few. They had metastasized.
Pazbi Zavazki:Had a big lump on my neck, and you can see I've still got a bit of a scar where they removed one of them. And that lasted for about it was supposed to be two years of treatment, chemo. And just on when we're about to finish up, and I'm like, yes. I've made it. They're like, protocol is saying three years is better.
Pazbi Zavazki:So they extended it for another thing. And during that time, I actually had some complications with an operation, and I had to I lost the ability to walk. And so I was wheelchair bound for about a year and a half. And I had a bit of a moment with my dad when he was, like, carrying me up two flights of stairs to our apartment for the umpteenth time. And I I really set my mind to, you know, trying to get my toes to wiggle and try and get my legs working again and looked that up.
Pazbi Zavazki:And then through the support of my parents I mean, my parents were my biggest advocates during my my treatment. You know? They didn't take no crap from me. And he doctors, they know. He's not gonna walk again.
Pazbi Zavazki:And he's like, you watch. And so, yeah, I definitely wouldn't be here without their support. And I I slowly learned how to walk again. I used to be a competitive swimmer as a child in Greece. So, you know, in nursery, I was competing at swimming.
Pazbi Zavazki:And my parents used to say that I I learned to swim before I could walk. And so learning how to walk again, you have to learn how to how to walk, run, cycle, swim. So all of that stuff, I had to relearn how to do. I also picked up how to move my ears, but with the same mentality, I saw mister Bean do it on TV, and I was like, I wanna do that. And then I I just use the same method of watching the muscle and telling it to move till it did.
Pazbi Zavazki:So, yeah, so that's my my thing about when I I went to uni here, graduated. I was the first my family to graduate from uni, and then I started my own business when I was gee, about 22, I think, something like that. Just after uni, I worked in a company. It didn't work out. Turns out there's scammers in in in the city as well.
Pazbi Zavazki:And first, I I got a bit jaded, went to Japan, came back, and then I started my own business, and did that for about ten years. And then when I was 30, I got diagnosed with ADHD, so combined ADHD. And that's when I started sort of looking into neurodivergence and neuroinclusion and stuff like that. And I've been talking about those topics as well, as I learn about stuff. And there's been a bit of a diagnosis domino happening in my life because, you know, the more I talk about these things publicly, more of my friends and and people in my network are like, oh, that sounds just like me.
Pazbi Zavazki:Maybe I should go get check that. And then, you know, they get diagnosed with something or they find out something about themselves. So it's it's been an interesting few years. And, yeah, there's always been about three years now since since that diagnosis, and that's about it. I think that's my that's my abridged thirty three years of life in a few minutes.
Pazbi Zavazki:Hopefully, that's I didn't walk over too long.
Peter Ely:No. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. That's that's really nice.
Peter Ely:And it's a it's a lovely introduction for us to kind of pick away a bit. And not not wanting to kind of relive the difficult part of your life when you were younger, but but to kinda help people focus on on how you coped. What helped keep you motivated? Because that's huge for for someone so young to have to go through what you went through. And you talked a little bit about your parents and their support, but what were the things that kept you motivated and kept you going forward?
Pazbi Zavazki:There's a few highlights, and I think school was really important for me because I wasn't able to for almost two years to attend school properly because of my compromised immune system and then the wheelchair situation was difficult. So I left school probably about year two ish, and then I came back just before the end of year three, you know, in a wheelchair. So people saw me as one individual. And then at the end of the next year, I looked completely different, no hair, in a wheelchair. They were like, who is this guy?
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? But the school teacher that I had, miss Jegi, she basically got a lot of the kids to write me get well soon cards. She was my year three teacher. And and she also tracked from where I think she lived in Chesson, which is, like, very far north, all the way to the Royal Free Hospital. Right?
Pazbi Zavazki:So the other side I think it was probably about two hour journey for her then. And she came and brought me gifts from well, all the cards, but also the kids had raised money and got me connects. You know, those big kits. And so it was it was various little moments like that that really brighten up your day. So I was in a group of about 12 or 13 kids in my ward that had similar conditions to me.
Pazbi Zavazki:They were I think we were all cancer patients. And, unfortunately, only, I think, two of us made it, you know, out of all those kids. And we're talking with, like, the best medical, support we could get. And I think a lot of them, unfortunately, gave up. Like, I know of one child who she was much younger than us.
Pazbi Zavazki:She was, I think, at the time, maybe about four.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Right.
Pazbi Zavazki:And she basically stopped taking her medication because she was fed up and then quickly deteriorated. You know? So it was, I think, having those little interventions from other people. You know? Having people who I didn't think cared about me that much, you know, a teacher in school or classmates who you haven't seen in a year to write you all those cards and stuff.
Pazbi Zavazki:But it's really like, it really makes a difference. And it was just a a lot of those little pleasant things that happen along the way that give you a lot more hope. Even when I couldn't go to school, there was a little school department in this hospital so they could take you then. You could do lessons, which I really enjoyed, and it made me feel like a normal kid for a bit. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:So I think I was, like, the most like, my mom was like, you're probably the only kid who's excited to go to school. It's like, what else is there? I I can sit in a bed and and wallow, or I could go and learn something. You know?
Peter Ely:That's funny because I was exactly thinking that you you're the you're the first person that I've heard saying, I'm really excited to go to school. So, you know, that's lovely. And it's amazing that you remember that teacher's name, and it just goes to show just how important teachers can be for us.
Pazbi Zavazki:It's it's it's massive. And and then we had we we had the black cab charity, you know, if we take the kid. And they took us, you know, a bunch of us to Disneyland.
Gary Johannes:Oh, okay.
Pazbi Zavazki:And we all all paid for and everything from the from the cabbies. And but it was I didn't know what was happening. So I was at home, and then my parents were like, okay. We gotta go. And It was, like, four, five in the morning or something, and I'm like, what where are we going?
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? And I'm like, I'm I'm panicking. I'm like, oh, did I am I do I have another test? Do I you know, what's happening? And and then we got I think we were close to, like, somewhere in East London.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? We so we drove down to East London, and it was like a field just full of black cabs. Just full of black cabs, some ambulances and stuff. And it was it was just about dawn. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:Like so it was just a little bit of light coming in. I'm like, what has happened? It's like, oh, we're gonna go to Disneyland. I was like, oh, shit. Like, what's that makes no sense to my little brain.
Pazbi Zavazki:Like, I was just like, what? So, yeah, we we got in the camps, and then they drove us through, you know, the the tunnel and stuff. We went to to to France, and it was a lovely weekend. And they took me my brother and my mother as well with me, my younger brother and my mother. It was a really nice weekend.
Peter Ely:That's amazing. Yeah. And and one of the things that you said that I really liked there was that you you had hope. It gave you hope, and hope is such an important thing for for people who are going through a difficult time. So let's
Pazbi Zavazki:say that
Peter Ely:I wanna bring Gary and and Ben in. Gents, do you have a question for for Pasabi?
Gary Johannes:I I have an observation, and it's it's a bit of a strange one. But Pasabi, your role model, I'm sure.
Pazbi Zavazki:Say my name in Japan. Right.
Gary Johannes:It's but your role model was mister Ben. Yeah. I mean, explain.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. I I
Gary Johannes:mean yeah.
Pazbi Zavazki:I I think Rowan Atkinson is an amazing actor. And mister Bean, I used to watch all of it, you know, when he, like, comes in from space, basically. I found out this theory when I was much older that he's actually an alien pretending to be yeah. Because, you know, he comes from that, like, giant light, and then he let lands on Earth, and then he's so weird. And he doesn't speak much.
Gary Johannes:I didn't know that.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. So the concept is that he's basically a human pretending to be, learning the ways sorry, an alien learning the ways of how to be a human. And that's why he's so thing. Hilarious, and he does everything so weird, and he copies people and all these stuff. But I just love that that sort of Charlie Chaplin esque physical humor.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know?
Gary Johannes:The other thing I wanted to point out is it was so good. I you know, we've all met lots of people who've been through difficult times in their lives and their childhoods, but you picked out all the things, which were lovely going to Disney. But the the whole field of black caps, the, you know, the lovely things all the way, the parent support, the the the hospital, the school little school works place in there. The teacher traveling two hours. You notice all the good things, and you remember them clearly, the clarity of your memory of all the positives.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah.
Gary Johannes:That's what we talk about with clients all day long, and you do it naturally. You got excited by the present you've got. You get excited by going to school. You got excited by going to Disney. No wonder mister Bean has been such a big influence.
Gary Johannes:So, yeah, I'm very already very, very impressed with what you do and what you've done.
Pazbi Zavazki:Thank you. I I think it's important to really focus on the positives, especially in, I think, in general in life because it's it's one of those things where we there's an that expression that, you know, we'll laugh about this in the future.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Mhmm.
Pazbi Zavazki:And it's always the case. Everything seems so much worse in the moment. And so if you can if you can try and pick that silver lining from that situation, that's what ends up being the the memory about that. You know? And I think that's a better approach to it than just, well, I don't like wallowing on stuff because it you know, one of my favorite expressions that I I heard was, if you don't like where you're at, move.
Pazbi Zavazki:You're not a tree. And it stuck with me for, like, two, three decades now. But, yeah, that that's my approach to things. So I'm always you know, what's the lesson? If I if I fail at something, what's the lesson?
Pazbi Zavazki:So it's not a failure. It's just an obstacle. You know? Or if I've had a a really bad situation, then, you know, at least there's something funny about it. So maybe in five years' time, you can you can laugh about it.
Benn Baker-Pollard:You've been through an awful a massive challenge in your life, and you you're at that point now where you're looking at stuff in the positive. I I I think of a I I can't remember the name of the person who says it, but it's
Pazbi Zavazki:on a on a,
Benn Baker-Pollard:a podcast that I heard where there's a the lady says, life is painful because it's freaking hard, but suffering is a choice. What was it that enabled you when you were, as that kid, to be able to turn that around in your mind? How did you get from that diagnosis to being probably in quite a dark place to being able to say, actually, no. I am gonna walk again. I am gonna get through my cancer, and you didn't give up, like, the four year old that you talked about.
Pazbi Zavazki:I think it was this will be funny. I I think I didn't wanna let my parents know. I think that was a big one because they had I could see how much they were putting into the situation. You know? Staying up, coming with like, my I don't think my mom was working at the time just to look after me.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? And so my dad, who was working, I don't know how many overtimes he would have to do at our job I know he didn't enjoy, and then come home and have to carry me up two flights of stairs to our apartment, I know how much of a drain that was on them both physically and mentally. And, I mean, I can say it now eloquently, but, you know, as a kid, you just you sort of sense it, you know, that you are becoming a burden. And so I think a lot of it was that motivation of how can I not be a burden to the people that I love? You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:And and that really pushed me through a lot of it, especially with the you know? Because it's when you hear a doctor saying, look. We don't don't have your hopes up that he'll walk again. Mhmm. Then you're like, oh, shit.
Pazbi Zavazki:Hey. I'm I'm not gonna walk. You know? So it's very easy to just accept that. And and I did for for a while because, you know, why would I doubt the doctor who has been looking after me?
Pazbi Zavazki:But I saw that my parents often challenged the doctors. I saw them argue with them. Like, my dad almost got kicked out of the hospital one time because I had a really bad infection. This was maybe about two years into chemo. I had a really bad infection, and this was so dumb because it could have been so preventable.
Pazbi Zavazki:They had a nurse who was allergic to latex and had her own gloves that she would reuse. But, like, contemplate that she is working with kids who have compromised immune systems and is using reusable gloves. So the only one she's protecting is herself. Right? Like, oh, they're not gonna get any of the achy blood on me.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. But you're cross contaminating people. Right? Yeah. So I got really sick.
Pazbi Zavazki:This was usually about Christmas time. I would always get really sick. You know? So I was really glad to have Harry Potter books coming out just before Christmas and bit of escapism. But this time I got really sick, I was emanciated.
Pazbi Zavazki:I couldn't eat and stuff like that. So they they put me on a on a drip for potassium because I was basically just cramping constantly because I had I wasn't getting any nutrients. And my dad was telling me he needs sodium. If you're giving him potassium, he can't absorb it without sodium. And my dad's for context, he's a therapist.
Pazbi Zavazki:Right? So he does manual therapy. He studied nutrition. He's very good at that stuff. And so he was arguing with them, like, you should just sprinkle bicarbonate soda on the on the sheet that he's on so it can absorb through his skin.
Pazbi Zavazki:And the doctor was like, that's nonsense. That's, like, some wishy washy stuff. Like, that's not gonna work. I'm gonna bring him medicine. And so I'm there suffering for a few hours.
Pazbi Zavazki:He comes back, like, literally four, five hours later, and he brings a little tube. And he goes to my dad, this will help him, medicine. And my dad takes it, and he see he looks at the main ingredient, number one, which is like, the first ingredient on a product is the active ingredient. It's like, what has the most of it? And it's sodium bicarbonate.
Pazbi Zavazki:He's like, beat that at you. But, like, like, he's been so we could've just sprinkle some sodium bicarbonate, and you would've you would've done the better thing. You know? So I think having those experiences of seeing my parents argue with them them shook my inherent belief that what the doctor says is always right. And so I think that gave me the the sort of mental flexibility to be like, okay.
Pazbi Zavazki:If they're not always right, maybe they're wrong about this. Maybe I can walk again. You know? What's the harm in trying? Let me try and wiggle my toes.
Pazbi Zavazki:Have you seen Kill Bill where where she's, like, wakes up and she's, like, wiggle my toes? And, obviously, I saw this, like, ten years later, but I never I never resonated with the character more than that scene. You know? And I was like, I did that too.
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Pazbi Zavazki:That's So yeah.
Gary Johannes:That that's a brilliant story and one which is quite close to my heart as well as some of the other guys in here and know because I've actually been through that experience as the parent.
Pazbi Zavazki:Mhmm.
Gary Johannes:Probably be just as angry at times.
Pazbi Zavazki:Mhmm. I've
Gary Johannes:ever been with my children or one of my children who sometimes comes on a podcast. It's an interesting story that the question I've got, which might change that or might decide to it, how stubborn are you? Because my son who decided against all the stories from the doctors and the white coat said, you never never never. He went, yeah. I will.
Gary Johannes:And he was stubborn that he was going to. So, yes, there's a side where you didn't wanna let your parents down and things like that. But how stubborn are you to because that's hard work to clear through that. It's like, you know, you've gotta go, oh, I'm not gonna give up.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. I think I'm I don't know if I have changed because currently, I wouldn't say that I'm stubborn. You know? I tend to have an open mind about most things.
Gary Johannes:Are you determined?
Pazbi Zavazki:Determined for sure. Like, if I do set my mind to something, then I'm gonna follow it through as much as I can.
Gary Johannes:Just a different frame of the same word?
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. I mean, in in the point of view that if I have an opinion on something and then somebody debates me on it, I'm willing to change my opinion on something. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Gary Johannes:Like, if Doesn't tell you.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. Yeah. New stuff comes in, then I'm like, okay. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna stick with it just because I'm, you know, I'm I'm happy to explain it.
Gary Johannes:Mind it.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. That's the that's the thing with that. But I think that's the expression. Yeah. So
Gary Johannes:Well, I just wondered how far that that determination, stubbornness, or whatever we wanna call it, has now affects what you do now in life.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. I mean, I I think it I think it does I think most of the things I do are affected by it's it's tough. I think it's I think it's a difference between desire and sort of, like, willpower situation. You know? I have the desire to do a lot of things, but I can only put my willpower behind a few things.
Pazbi Zavazki:Mhmm. And so the ADHD kind of traits that I have always constantly wanna follow the new shiny thing. You know? The new new thing. I last year, I closed three limited companies because I had set them up, done branding, done done websites, business plans, all the fun stuff.
Pazbi Zavazki:And then I was like, alright. Now I have to run these. And I'm like, ugh. And then I didn't do that for a few months. And then I
Gary Johannes:I'm gonna have to buy my business partner from saying this for sure, so you just describe me.
Pazbi Zavazki:But I I, one of my friends, you know, he we were having a talk, and I was telling him about this other thing that I was working on. And he looked at me really seriously, looked at me in my eyes, and he said, Paz, can I give you some advice? And I was like, yes. Of course. And he's like, you need to focus.
Pazbi Zavazki:And I was like, oh, shit. I was like, tell me, like, I know. I need he's like, no. Just focus on one thing. Do it really well.
Pazbi Zavazki:And then you you don't need all these other things. And I really took it to heart. I think it was mostly because they really looked like they cared, and they looked at me in my face, and they were like, you know, this is some heartfelt advice. You're doing too much. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:And I looked at my the I looked at the situation. I was like, yeah. Like, I'm talking to this guy about another venture, and I have, you know, who knows how many other ones just there. And so I I really just decided to focus on my agency at that time and and not do, you know, all these other things. You know, I had a property SaaS and, you know, joint venture with this plumbing company and all this stuff.
Pazbi Zavazki:Like, too many things to you know, I I I was thinking of doing my own podcast. I even had the domain and website, everything, but it's like, when am I gonna
Gary Johannes:do that? Last? Sorry? How long did that last?
Pazbi Zavazki:I didn't do a a single episode because I was
Gary Johannes:For doing for doing just one thing when you set all some of the stuff down, how long did that last?
Pazbi Zavazki:No. It's it's still ongoing. I've I've just done it. Yeah. Yeah.
Pazbi Zavazki:That's what I'm saying. Like, if I do make a decision, I tend to use that as my anchor.
Gary Johannes:Right.
Benn Baker-Pollard:You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:So then if I start getting distracted or if I start doing so and I use a vision board. I think vision boards are vastly underrated. But my my wallpaper on my iPad is my vision board. Uh-huh. Whenever I turn it on, I see it.
Pazbi Zavazki:And then you know? So if all the decisions are there So all I need to do is turn on my button. I'm like, okay. That's is what I'm doing getting me closer to that or not? And then, no.
Pazbi Zavazki:Okay. Let me change.
Gary Johannes:What I'm hearing is that you're having to put things in place to stop you going after shiny things. Yes. Mhmm. Yeah.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? Because I'm not gonna change my I don't think I can change the way that my brain works fundamentally. Right? And I think it's it's it's a futile endeavor, right, to do so, to try and fight your nature.
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Benn Baker-Pollard:But, you
Pazbi Zavazki:know, like, martial arts or whatever, you know, they don't they they'd be like water. You know? So the the water's gonna flow. It's easier to just change the path a little bit than to try and stop a river. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:Just move it to the side a little, and then it'll go the way that you want it to.
Gary Johannes:Right.
Pazbi Zavazki:And that's the same with me. I've I've put little things in place over the years that worked for me. And then when I have this creative flow or creative energy or that that that, you know, that spark in me, I can flow it into the things that actually make a difference to my life rather than distractions. So I think that's the way that's the way I do it. I don't know, but hopefully it works for other people as well.
Gary Johannes:Alright. Well, part of part
Peter Ely:of what we do on this podcast is kinda share ideas because Yeah. You know, someone might be listening to this and then think, actually, that's a great idea. That might help me. So thank you for sharing that. And we've touched now on on the ADHD piece.
Peter Ely:I know when we first spoke, you mentioned that it had a a bit of an effect on you, the diagnosis. So do you wanna just talk a little bit about that? What what happened to you? How it kinda changed your perception of you? Because you you you were very eloquent when we spoke about that.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. So I think with I didn't have the words for originally when it was happening to me, but I you know, as you learn more about yourself and and psychology and stuff like that, you find the words. So what happens is what happened was with the diagnosis, I had an identity change. Right? And so when people go through an identity change, their brain restructures and changes the the neural pathways that they have based on their identity.
Pazbi Zavazki:Right? So there's some core sort of you know, if it's a motorway, of neurons and stuff, there'll be some junctions which are really important about who you are. And when that changes, all the roads that are leading from there sort of become disjointed. So it becomes harder for you to do the things that you used to be able to do when they relied on that part of your identity. And so for me, it was my diagnosis, but, you know, for most men, it'll be when they become a husband or when they become a father or, you know, those are, you know, big life changing events, and they literally rewire how your brain works.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? And so stuff that used to be important to you no longer is because you have other things that are more important now. Things that you used to be able to do or enjoyed no longer are. And so because your brain has to prioritize what the new identity is about. And so when when that happened to me, I noticed that a lot of my, let's say, my spelling.
Pazbi Zavazki:I thought I was great at spelling. You know? And now what I've noticed is I make a ton of mistakes. I just don't notice them. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:So I've had to get into the habit of either having Grammarly, which is a great extension, and it tells me, hey. This makes no sense. Fix it. Or just rereading everything out loud before I'm about to send it. And often, you you you like, yeah.
Pazbi Zavazki:Because it looks right. But then as soon as you read it, you're like, what was I saying? That doesn't make sense. Like, I'm missing a word here, or I wrote the wrong word. So I don't recall having the those issues in the past before my diagnosis.
Pazbi Zavazki:I'm acutely aware of them now. And I don't know if that's just because I'm acutely aware that I might have dyslexia or something. I don't know. Or that I just you know, people with ADHD tend to make careless mistakes when they're typing because they're impatient. They're trying to they're thinking ahead of what they're typing, so maybe I forgot some stuff.
Pazbi Zavazki:But because I'm aware of that now, I look out for it. Whereas before, maybe I didn't. So maybe I just have this false idea that before my diagnosis, I was great at writing emails, and I never made mistakes and I was super accurate. But that's not the case anymore. So I have to make sure that I adjust my workflow to do that.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know?
Peter Ely:And and you've talked a a little bit there again about, like, kinda neuroplasticity, and and you mentioned that you were able to kinda wiggle your ears by by focusing on that. Do you think that those having that experience earlier on in your life, so having to relearn how to walk and having to change your brain. Right? Because you will have had to have changed your brain to do that. Do you think that's helped you cope with the ADHD?
Pazbi Zavazki:Probably. But I think it's hard to know. I don't have another brain to AB test. You know? Like, this it's just how I am.
Pazbi Zavazki:So but I'm sure that that sort of resilience has has helped me adapt to the situation quicker. You know? But I I tend to be able to adapt to most things that happen. And so yeah. But I don't know if that adaptability is an ADHD trait or a resilience neuroplasticity trait.
Pazbi Zavazki:So, yeah.
Peter Ely:Excellent. Gents, do you have any other questions that you'd like to ask Pazby? I'm down to my last two questions. So is there anything else before I kinda hit in with those that you'd like to talk to Pazby about or ask Pazby?
Benn Baker-Pollard:So I would say, yeah, I I wanna just slightly take you back a little bit, Pazby, just to where I'll sort of talking about that initial diagnosis you as a kid. I guess there's two points to this. If you were gonna give advice to a parent whose child has just been diagnosed with something similar to what you were diagnosed with, what advice would you give them to help keep things going, help support that child? And if you're an adult who's got it, is there anything that you can transfer to the adult world of of coping with a a diagnosis for someone who who's in, you know, a man's, for instance, is being diagnosed with testesculoskeletal or something similar? Is there any anything you can pull
Pazbi Zavazki:out of that,
Benn Baker-Pollard:of your experience that you would say these are kinda be your go
Pazbi Zavazki:to tips? So with I've obviously, I'm not a parent yet, so I don't have the sort of I can't empathize with what it's like to have a child be sick, you know, from that point of view.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Yeah. But those are really insights from being the child.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. So from from being the child, I would say being present is super important from the parent. I think it's very easy to, in difficult situations, to retreat from those difficult situations and or stop treating the child as a child and then more as a patient, you know, somebody who needs cuddling and stuff like that. And so those you know, if if you're lucky enough to just go through it and then it's you know, you're better and then that's it, great. But if you are one of the, you know, 80 or so kids who who, you know, ate out of the so who didn't make it, then you don't want the last sort of memories you have with your parents being just at a distance to avoid, you know, emotional contact because it's too difficult or them being unavailable because they're too stressed about how they're gonna juggle stuff and stuff.
Pazbi Zavazki:So I think that it's just about being present with your child during that period because those memories will last somebody's lifetime. You know? So either the kids or yours. And so they should be you should be the the the positivity that's in their lives. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:Because everything else is, like you said, hard and difficult, and, you know, you're faced with your own mortality at a very young age. And so if you don't have that hope and pleasantness and love from your parents, then there's not not much else left for you. You know? And I think for older people facing it, I've seen it. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:But with quite a few of my experiences, I worked on a translation for a book from a lady who has been suffering with cancer in from a young age into adulthood. You know? And I'm gonna translate that from Greek to English. And the I think the the the important thing is to try and live as much of your life as possible without caring about what people think of you because you have no hair or you've gained weight or, you have scars or you have a tube coming at your chest or whatever else it is. You have to try and live your life as normal as you can within, you know, within your, treatment and stuff because otherwise, you you end up isolating yourself.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? You have to try and, you know, when you're well, meet people and and go outside of the house and and and touch grass because, you know, there's there's something so emotionally draining about just being stuck in bed for three months. You know? Phys like, not even emotionally, just spiritually. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:You it it becomes such a dark place, and then you you can't even rest because it's like, you know, this is the bed becomes the anchor of all that negativity. So then it's like, you know, you're just there, wallowing and being miserable where you should be, you know, being resting or having, you know, sex or whatever. And then you're just they're being like, the bed sucks because I can't leave this place. And so understand that for some people during chemo, physically, they can't. But at the earliest opportunity or with the support of their friends and family, they need to to do that.
Pazbi Zavazki:And if you're friends with somebody who's going through it, you need to maintain the relationship as as as sort of consistently as you had in the past. You know? Yeah. Just because they've got cancer doesn't mean they're dead, doesn't mean they're dying, doesn't mean they're not your friend anymore. Do you like, if you if you always call them on a Friday to check-in on them, you keep calling them every Friday to check-in on.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? If you if you used to go to the pub every week, at the very least, you call them every week and you say, hey. Do you wanna go to the pub today? And if they say, no. I'm not feeling well.
Pazbi Zavazki:That's it. No worries. Hope you feel better. Do you want me to come to you, or do you just need time to rest? You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:But you have to keep making those connections with people so they don't feel isolated because that's where most people then give up. Because they say, man, I've been six three months. Nobody's been in touch. They're all scared to talk to me. They all feel like I'm gonna collapse if they they, you know, they give me a hug or anything.
Pazbi Zavazki:So and then you just feel like, again, you're a burden. You know? Yeah. That's when that's when the negativity seeps in, and that's when you end up having really self destructive thoughts. So
Benn Baker-Pollard:I hope that answers the question. Mate. That's really good. Yeah.
Gary Johannes:It's really good. What what are the things you mentioned? I think Peter asked you a question about how did you get through yourself? How did you cope yourself as a child? And you talked about not so much we talk about positivity, but you talked about joy and finding those small things and hope.
Gary Johannes:And you just talked about it again in a much more spectrum. So going out touching the grass, going out, getting people still being your friend in that that normality, but also actively looking for things which bring you pleasure, which are nice, which are fun, which are sense of achievement. Notice in those little tiny things like all those camps in one place or, you know, those the teacher traveling, the the the the get well cards from the other kids. Yeah. As a grown up, that can be so important.
Gary Johannes:I we see people who have long term illnesses and things like that. And so many people who are struggling forget to notice the nice stuff. They forget to notice what's right in front of them. The old saying, stop and smell the roses.
Pazbi Zavazki:I had an experience with that recently. You know? I went so my best man at my wedding, Alex, we went for a normally, we we meet up when we go for dinner or something with with a bunch of friends and stuff. And we opted to just meet Nez Stratford and just walk around and talk and catch up. And we did that for about what felt like, two and a half hours.
Pazbi Zavazki:And as we're walking through, he's like, holy shit. And he just wants to just push, and he goes and smells these flowers. I was like, the fuck?
Benn Baker-Pollard:Like, I
Pazbi Zavazki:wasn't into the conversation. That's so good. You know? He's like, yo, these smell amazing. And I was like, wow.
Pazbi Zavazki:Talk about being in the moment. You know? This guy this guy, we're just walking, and he literally stopped because something smelled nice. And so he just went there and smelled it. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:And he's like, wow. This is this is a great flower. And it just, you know, retriggered that sort of, oh, you know, have I been enjoying the present? Have I been looking for these little moments? Or have I just been sort of living my day to day?
Pazbi Zavazki:It was very easy to just live your life day to day. And then it all just blends into the and then you say, where did the time go? And it's like, went there into one long blob of nothingness. Right? Because there was nothing.
Pazbi Zavazki:But there's always an opportunity to see something. You know? Somebody makes a joke that you enjoy. You listen to something on the radio. It's just being a bit more aware of those things happening and then sort of making a mental note that, oh, that did happen.
Pazbi Zavazki:And for some people, it you know, some people journal. And if you're journaling, write them down, you know, those little things that happen during the day. I I tend to journal, but I do it haphazardly. I don't do it every day, like, religiously. But when I have, like, a day that I wanna I feel like it or when the my phone reminds me, it's like, hey.
Pazbi Zavazki:How are you feeling today? You wanna jot it down? And then I'll be like, oh, yeah. Today, I feel like writing stuff.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Sounds like Peter's prepped you for this. So I feel like you focus in the therapy and what we do. So every there's all the things that we give our clients to take away and do, which is awesome that you're coming onto them without us even prompting you or or or No.
Pazbi Zavazki:I I I definitely believe in that. You know, therapy is one of those things that you know you know, like, athletes, good world class athletes, like Olympians and stuff, they don't get to where they get to without coaches. Yeah. You can't you can't see your own problems often. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:You don't know what you don't know, and you can't see the problems or the bad habits or the the sort of patterns that you're doing without that external person to sort of give you that feedback and and just tweak the path that you're on a little bit. So I really respect therapists for what they do, and I think it's such an underrated profession. I think people only end up going to therapy after a traumatic experience or when it's, like, court mandated or whatever. And it's I'm like, why wait? You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:Especially with with health or, you know, we say mental health and health, like, you know, people often wait till they have a heart attack before they start getting into shape. You know, like, man, if you did exactly what you were doing now five years ago, you wouldn't have had a heart attack. You know? And so why wait to have a traumatic experience or a breakdown before you get the therapy to then fix it? It's it's hard twice as hard.
Pazbi Zavazki:It's easier to to to, you know, maintain health than to try and fix it. So, yeah, we definitely recommend it for everyone. And I'm thinking about just now with the with the That's
Benn Baker-Pollard:the ADHD bit. The squirrels just run across the room.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. Yeah. I had another point, but I just it's gone now into the ether.
Peter Ely:No worries. I definitely haven't prepped Pazby on this at all. It's it's lovely. You you once you've gone through you've gone through all this stuff, you've now decided that you're gonna help people. And you're doing that with technology and neurodiversity.
Peter Ely:Can you tell us a little bit about that and tell us yeah. Just tell us a little bit about that, how you're helping people with neurodiversity and using technology.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. So when I well, firstly, when I started learning about, you know, ADHD and neurodiversity in general, I started making content and then sharing that online of my experience and, you know, stuff that works for me. And I've had quite a few messages from people, DMs and stuff saying, you know, this really resonated or, oh, my son's just like this. Maybe I'll get him some support or, you know, quite a lot of adults in my life as well. Message me saying, hey.
Pazbi Zavazki:I didn't know. So that's one thing. And what I've worked on for the past two and a half years now is, the neuroinclusive standards. And, basically, what I'm doing is creating standard of how businesses, especially in tech, because that's where my experience is, can be more inclusive. And rather than being because I think neurodiversity is one of those things that sounds like a good initiative, but the way that it's implemented currently reads a lot of toxicity in the workplace.
Pazbi Zavazki:Like, if somebody comes in and it's like, okay. If you're, autistic or have ADHD or dyslexic and stuff, here's the support you get. You get a cool chair. You get a new thingy. You get an assistant.
Pazbi Zavazki:You get new headphones. Great. But you have to, firstly, out yourself. Right? You have to disclose your medical status to your employer, and then they might not give you a promotion.
Pazbi Zavazki:They might overlook you for other things, or they might take away some of your responsibilities because they have a preconceived notion of what it means to to have to have a brain like that. And so you've got that aspect. But then you also have the toxicity of your colleagues. Right? And saying, oh, why does Bob get all headphones?
Pazbi Zavazki:And I what the fuck? Right? That's not fair. You know? And it's little petty things like that that people might not talk about, but internally, they start festering.
Pazbi Zavazki:And then they're like, oh, he doesn't work as hard as me, and he gets bonuses, or he'll they look after him and blah blah blah. Well, what you and it creates this sort of us versus them mentality in the workplace. And that's doesn't help anyone. Right? So then the people who are neurotypical feel like they're betrayed by the workplace, and the people who are neurodiverse feel like this place sucks anyway.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. Because people bully me and stuff. So you end up you do all these things as an employer, and it doesn't really help. So my my my neuroinclusive standards, the goal is to create a level of brainfield for everyone regardless of if they're neurotypical, neurodiverse, ADHD, autism, whatever it is. It should be one level brainfield for every type of brain.
Pazbi Zavazki:And then the goal of implementing that is that it reduces your absenteeism, your your churn, and stuff like that. People will not be as burnt out. And that's just just reducing it because, apparently, like, 25% of the workforce is neurodiverse. Like, they've you know? And, they just don't know it.
Pazbi Zavazki:Some of them. The or some of them don't want to identify as such. Right? Like, we were talking about identity before. Some people have ADHD, and some people are ADHDers.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah? They embrace it. I noticed that a lot in the deaf community. I worked, I worked on a on a poetry event in all in BSL. I love I love sign language.
Pazbi Zavazki:So my my ex is deaf, and that's where I learned it. Right? So I learned oh, maybe the neuroplasticity does help because I learned sign language very quickly. Within two weeks, we were communicating with our hands rather than with text. So I had to get much better over time.
Pazbi Zavazki:But with the with the with the oh, I've lost my train of thought.
Gary Johannes:The standards. You were talking about the standards and how.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. So no. So what I'm saying is in the deaf community, they have little d deaf or big d deaf. And so the difference is little d deaf is a condition. Big d deaf is an identity.
Pazbi Zavazki:Right? Oh. And so, you you know, they don't they don't see it as hearing loss. It's deaf gain. You gain a language.
Pazbi Zavazki:You gain a culture. You gain a community. Right? You're no longer, just a deaf person. You're a deafie.
Pazbi Zavazki:Right? You're part of the crew. You've got your own secret language that other people can't yeah. It gets great. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:So the it's a very positive spin on a otherwise difficult situation for some people. Right? Because some people grow up hearing, and then they have an accident, and they become deaf or they hard of hearing. And so for those people, it's very difficult to not consider themselves as disabled and have like, they've lost something.
Gary Johannes:Mhmm.
Pazbi Zavazki:But what about people who've never had hearing? They've not lost anything. That's just how they are. And so for them, being part of the deaf community means that they have gained some stuff. Right?
Pazbi Zavazki:They've gained a culture and a language and a different group of friends. And so I think with the same I had having that experience being in that community led me to have this sort of approach to my neuroinclusive standards and how it's not just about a condition or a thingy. Like, there's always an identity angle to it. And so we want it to be as inclusive for every type of brain, not just the feud and not just the majority. So Supporting
Gary Johannes:that is you know, you're you've come up with these standards from what I understand.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yes. So
Gary Johannes:push that out to the broader spectrum of employers.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. So we're working on a few initiatives at the moment. We'd like to I've been introduced to Birkbeck University. They have a really good psychology and occupational psychiatry department who are reviewing it. We have some independent consultants who work in the neurodiversity space who are also looking into it.
Pazbi Zavazki:And, basically, the rest is just about getting it into practice and and getting the results. So if I mean, for a company that has, like, a hundred employees, if we can reduce their neurodivergent staff's rate of churn and absenteeism to the same level as neurotypical people, on average, would save £60,000 a year for a company with hundred employees. And that scales. So, you know, so so it's definitely a worthwhile venture commercially, but also very worthwhile because this the scale of that we can improve people's lives at is is huge.
Gary Johannes:Do do you think it will benefit to help with a lot of the stigma of what goes around neurodiversity?
Pazbi Zavazki:I think I think my goal with it is to with neuroinclusion is to get it to the point where we don't have those conversations of, you know, us versus them is, you know, it's the same it's a similar challenge we have with race. You know? It's con it's not about not being racist. It's about being anti racist. Right?
Pazbi Zavazki:It's about making the world fair for everyone regardless. And I think the same should apply for mentally, like, our our brain types, neurotypes. We it's not about not being discriminatory to people who have different, like, ways of thinking. It should be act like, we should be against that notion completely. It should be everyone gets treated the same regardless.
Pazbi Zavazki:Right? And so then you shouldn't have stigma. You you shouldn't be you know, if it's one of those things that doesn't make sense in society because we're all, like, educated blah blah blah. And then you have situations where people treat other people worse because they're, let's say, disabled. And you're like, you're one accident away from joining that group.
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Pazbi Zavazki:You know? You you know, there's people who have people who are born with ADHD, for example. It's people who get into an accident. They have a concussion or something. Their brain changes.
Pazbi Zavazki:And then, you know, once they go through recovery and everything else, their brain is different. They might have dyslexia, dyspraxia, so many different things. And so it makes no sense whatsoever to to to create barriers for other people because you could easily join that group, you know, especially from a mental point of view. But just in general, it doesn't make sense. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:So I hope that we can get to a point where you know? That's my that's my optimism. I hope we can have a a world where, you know, kids grow up and there's no difference Because that's all learned anyway. But that's that's something that somebody has taught someone to do. You know?
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. And so, hopefully, we can get past that.
Peter Ely:Amazing. Thank you so much, Pazby. My last question to you before I give you the opportunity to tell us all about Kick Ass online is Ben is off to Japan in April. As
Benn Baker-Pollard:you're looking at,
Peter Ely:where should he go? What what do you recommend?
Pazbi Zavazki:So are you going to Tokyo? Yes. And Hiroshima. Okay. So in between those, there's a lovely city called Osaka.
Pazbi Zavazki:It has some of the finest food in all of Japan. There's a street vendors and stuff. I preferred it to Tokyo. I mean, you could do all most of the big sites in Tokyo in about a week and then just leave and then go somewhere else. April is a very interesting period because you've got all the sakura blossoms and everything, so you've got, you know but it starts from the South and it goes up Cool.
Pazbi Zavazki:Because they're, you know, they're just across the Equator like that. So you you might be catching the end of it as you get into if you start in Tokyo. But, yeah, I don't know, man. There's loads of stuff to do. If you can see some sumos, spring's about the time when they start doing matches.
Pazbi Zavazki:Like, best seats in the house, probably, like, a hundred pounds because they convert in rate. So definitely worth because here, they're coming to London. I look at the prices, minimum a grand for, like, just a normal seat, and then, like, the boxes are, like, 6 and a half. So it's just like, oh, I've been waiting thirty seven years for the Sumo to come back to The UK, and then they rinse you. So it's cheaper to just go to Japan and watch them there.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, you'll be walking a lot. You'll be walking a lot because they just that's just part of the culture. Bring an umbrella everywhere you go.
Pazbi Zavazki:You can get them from most convenience stores, but the rain is random and unrelenting. Usually, when I was there the first time, the people were like, oh, you're a tourist. And I was like, what gave me away? It's like, you have no umbrella, and it's nice. And I was like, okay.
Pazbi Zavazki:What does that mean? It's gonna rain today. And I was like, where? It's like 35 degrees and it's sunny. And I was like, and it will rain, and you will not have an umbrella.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. And I was like, okay. Then I and then I fell fat. I fell victim to that. Yes.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. But when it it's awfully humid. So when you when you when you when it does rain and it's, like, 30 degrees and you're I was in a vest, a little tank top, and shorts with an umbrella. It's like the most insane scenario. So you should be fine you should be fine if you're there just in April time.
Pazbi Zavazki:But if, like, later towards the April, May, that's when it starts getting a bit risky. Cool. But, yeah, go Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto is very worthwhile visiting. That's the old capital of Japan. People still walk around in kimonos.
Pazbi Zavazki:They have lovely temples there that you can go up. That is this old temple, and it has the sort of equipment of this monk. And he used to train every day, like, muscle training. And so his staff weighs, like, a 50 kilos, and his shoes are, like, 50 kilos each. So you can try and lift them.
Pazbi Zavazki:It's quite fun. But, yeah, there's so many things to do, but definitely check out as much as you can. And if the problem is you're going far. There's a JR Rail Pass that you can get that gives you a discount on you can use unlimited trains, even bullet trains, but the price went up. But you can get it by region.
Pazbi Zavazki:So you can just get until. So you don't have to get the whole country.
Gary Johannes:But if you do get
Pazbi Zavazki:the whole country, very worthwhile because you can just travel everywhere with the train. And the bullet trains are fast. They're so fast that if you try and take a picture, all the trees look like this. Yeah. So it's a it's a great time.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Yeah. Amazing. Very much. Welcome.
Peter Ely:I feel like that was proper a proper advertisement for, like, the Japan tourist forward. Amazing. Fantastic. Pazby, thank you so much. So over to you.
Peter Ely:Tell us a bit about Kick Ass online, what you do, and how people can find you.
Pazbi Zavazki:Yeah. So Kick Ass online, we build Kick Ass websites. We create modern websites that use AI to streamline processes and convert, you know, clicks into customers, and you get more leads for your business. You can find us online at kickassonline.com. You can check us out on social media, or you can just Google PASBI.
Pazbi Zavazki:And, you will find me for the first five, six pages of Google. So that's quite easy as well. And feel free to connect on LinkedIn. Again, just search pas b, so p a z b I, and you'll find me.
Peter Ely:That's brilliant. Thank you so much. That's been really engaging. It's a little bit longer than we normally do, but it's been such a fascinating conversation. So thank you so much for your time.
Pazbi Zavazki:Pleasure.
Peter Ely:So that's the end of another episode of Inspired Men Talk. We hope you enjoyed the the conversation. It's goodbye, and thank you to PASB from me. Gary, would you like to say thank you and goodbye?
Gary Johannes:Yeah. I was just unmuting myself. He picks on me all the time because I'm and technology isn't my thing.
Benn Baker-Pollard:You're on mute, Gary.
Gary Johannes:No. I'm not. See what I mean, Patsy?
Pazbi Zavazki:Yep. Yep. I see. They're bullying you. Oh,
Gary Johannes:thank you very much. Works.
Pazbi Zavazki:That's why.
Gary Johannes:That's been really helpful for me. Your story, it it it's very inspirational. But some of the I got diagnosed with ADHD eighteen months ago. Partly everybody else knew except me. And some of those little things of putting stuff in place to stop you looking at shiny things I probably need to adopt.
Gary Johannes:So thank you for sharing that, and it's been really inspirational. So thank you very much, and, really good luck with the standards. That's gonna be so life changing for a lot of people and helpful for a lot of businesses.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely. Pleasure to meet you, Pastor Lee. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And, yeah, wish you all the success in in in that standards piece. I think that's a a great opportunity there, and it sounds like you've got some fantastic support behind you. And thanks for the travel tips.
Pazbi Zavazki:You're welcome, man. Thank you.
Peter Ely:Cool. Thank you everybody for listening. Take care, and tune in next time for another great guest with the inspired men talk team.
