Overcoming Grief: Graham Baker’s Journey from Loss to Healing and Finding Purpose
Welcome everybody to another episode of Inspired Men Talk. This week, we've got an amazing guest, Graham Baker, who runs a photography business. He's gonna talk to us about his journey, what he's doing, and and how things have gone for him. As usual, we've got a team with us. All of us are here today, so it's great to see everybody.
Gary Johannes:We've got, Peter, who's one of our resident practical jokers, really, from what I can tell. We've got Ben, who we never know what part of the world he's in, but he's here today. And we've got Christopher, because it's raining. He's decided to come indoors. We've got the normal group, and remember, inspiring talk is about just talking about our wonderful ability to have resilience in the darkest moments.
Gary Johannes:So, hopefully, Graham's gonna give us some great insights. I'm gonna hand over to Graham to introduce himself and talk about all the things he's done.
Graham Baker:Thank you, Gary. As Gary says, I'm a commercial photographer. I've been full time since 2019, and before that, I was a police officer. Quite a transition from careers. Before that I was in IT as well.
Graham Baker:I worked for, Reuters in network architecture. The reason I'm here today or the reason I was suggested that I could come on is that I I've got a sort of an experience of sort of mental health struggles predominantly around bereavement. So my story really is that in 2,000 and just before Christmas, my wife and I lost our baby daughter during childbirth. There was no warning signals, no sort of issues in terms of the pregnancy or anything like that. You know, it was the usual, got the elbow in the morning, early hours of the morning.
Graham Baker:Oh, I think our baby's come in. Yeah. Excellent. All excited. Straight down to the hospital.
Graham Baker:Yeah. All no no issues. It was all, you know, really good and I couldn't find a heartbeat. I just I always kind of remember it as going into a bit of a shock because you don't believe that it's happening to you. I always remember the midwife coming in and checking, can't find a heartbeat.
Graham Baker:Don't worry. We'll get somebody else in and somebody else comes in. No. We can't find a heartbeat. Let's get the consultant in.
Graham Baker:Consultant comes in and, no. Sorry. You've lost the baby. What it turned out to be, which is very, very rare, is a double knot in her cord. So when she was ready to be born and moved into the birth canal, the knots tightened and stopped the blood supply and nutrients.
Graham Baker:She died in the womb. It was a full term baby we lost. It wasn't a miscarriage. We lost the babies. My wife had to give birth.
Graham Baker:I had to be strong for my wife and the rest of my family. We had a a daughter already and that was that. So we went through this whole process. Initially, we got involved with a charity called SANS. SANS is to do with stillbirth and neonatal death and very, very good charity, don't get me wrong, but for me, their focus was very much on the mum and rightly so.
Graham Baker:You know, we've lost a baby, she's carried the baby, and then had to deliver a a baby that was already gone. So the focus was very much on that. Whilst there were other blokes that turned up at this thing and we met another couple that lost their baby, it was literally 2 weeks before Christmas. And but it didn't resonate with me. I I felt really uncomfortable.
Graham Baker:I didn't feel that I was in a space that I could open up or talk about these things and I didn't go anymore. So my wife continued to go and got support with it, and there's another story sort of bolted onto that later on. For me, I was in the police service and I was an acting sergeant. I was about to do a a recruit course where I was actually taking in in a training recruit. But the police were, you know, they did their thing.
Graham Baker:They sort of well, here's here's 6 counselling sessions. You do pick 6 counselling sessions. Your rubber stamp. Okay. You're fit to go back to work.
Graham Baker:My supervisor was pretty good, gave me a bit of space and all the rest of it. But then it was back into routine. It was back to work. It was back to being in a stressful job and trying to be strong for the rest of the family, and I just cracked on with it. I spoke a little bit about it with my mates but it was that kind of they don't get it kind of vibe, no disrespect to them, they're my best friends but they weren't in the same boat as me so to speak.
Graham Baker:So I not buried it. I just got on with life and carried on. But then it was pointed out to me later that I was turning into quite an angry person. I probably wasn't a particularly nice person to be around. I started to get myself into not into trouble with the police, but just sort of making a name for myself and not being one of the team players.
Graham Baker:I think a lot of it stemmed from that feeling of, do you know what? The worst thing in my life has happened to me, and you're moaning about your neighbor's dog barking at night. I don't really give a shit about that because it's not important. Real life is important, but I was manifesting it as anger towards my colleagues, and it it just got to a point where one day and this is like years. This is going over several years.
Graham Baker:I I remember doing a drugs warrant. It was my job. I'd done the research. I've gone to court, got the warrant, and it was a fantastic job by all accounts. I just didn't feel anything and I felt completely numb during this job.
Graham Baker:I I thought something not quite right but that shortly after that, I went off sick with depression, went to the GP. Yeah. Here's the drugs. The the job signed me off sick. I was just in a place where I felt very lost.
Graham Baker:I'd lost my purpose. I didn't know what direction to do. I didn't wanna go back to work, and I just felt pretty horrible. I didn't feel that I was close to doing anything silly, if you know what I mean, but I did feel I shouldn't be around in the sense, but more of a running away feeling. Putting a sleeping bag in a car, jumping in the car, and disappearing off into the woods kind of vibe, kind of where I was with it.
Graham Baker:And, yeah, I wasn't great at all.
Gary Johannes:So it's an interesting thing there because we've got 2 of us on this call at fathers, and I just can't imagine going through that as a father myself. 1 of the people on the call has spent many years in the job and almost tells the same story without the same catalyst. There's so many crossovers here. But you said it was years from when that catalyst event happened to you get into the point where you couldn't do your job properly. No.
Gary Johannes:No. How many years?
Graham Baker:So that would have been 2009, 12, 13, 14, 18, 17, almost 8 years, 8, 9 years later. And I think that that was something I've I've learned. There's no time limit to this stuff. Something could happen. Some sort
Gary Johannes:of trauma or incident could
Graham Baker:have happened to you, and then you just get on
Gary Johannes:with life, and then that
Graham Baker:little ball of whatever is just rolling and running. It's it's like the the expression, isn't it? If you're if a frog jumps into boiling water, it jumps out.
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Graham Baker:If you're in that water cold and then it's warming up, you stay there, and that's where I was. I I didn't realize what was happening to me. I you know, bit of shit.
Gary Johannes:So so right now I'm thinking, do I bring Christopher in there as a father, or do I bring Ben in there who has done the job in the same way and can see how those little stressful moments build up. And we talk about the stress buckling. In. I know you know Claire quite well, who's friend of us, and we can see all of us as I said here going. We know exactly what happened because it just built up and built up, and at the end, you go pop.
Gary Johannes:But actually, we can what is that build up? That catalyst is sitting there though taking a big chunk of it. It's never processed. So I'm gonna actually push over to Ben and see if he's got any questions. Ben, do you anything to ask?
Benn Baker-Pollard:When you are back at work, Graham, was it the expectation to just get on with it that stops you from talking about it? Or was it that you didn't want to talk about it? How did it feel for you in the job? Because we have a lot of that mentality where if you talk about your health or mental health, people don't wanna listen. People just want you to come and do your bit and go home again.
Graham Baker:I'd say it's a combination of all of that. One of the underlying feelings for me was that I was a southeast London police officer. You you work in a borough around there for a year as the equivalent of working 2 years anywhere else, no disrespect to any other, but it's a busy place and it's a stressful place.
Gary Johannes:I've bought and bought in southeast London, Lee. So I
Benn Baker-Pollard:was a southeast captain. I was in the job, so I worked out a little. So I know what you're talking about.
Graham Baker:It's a busy place. It's tough. And if you bring attention to yourself that you're struggling in any form of mental struggles or anything like that or you put yourself up as being sick, then your career is done because you get pushed aside. Graham can't handle the front line anymore. He has to go and sit in a nice, cushy office where I don't wanna be.
Graham Baker:I'm not saying that's true. I'm saying that's how I felt. Mhmm. Yeah. So by sort of putting your hand up and then saying, look, you know what?
Graham Baker:I'm really struggling here. I could do with some help. You're like, no. I I don't wanna appear weak. I don't wanna then start getting screwed over.
Graham Baker:I'm not saying I wasn't the only person that felt that way. I think there was a lot of police officers when I was in a job that were masking their true kind of mental health struggles because they knew that if they put their hand up, that's it. They they wouldn't get that next course or they would get put into an office, which is boring when generally people wanted to be with their teammates because that's where they felt the most comfortable. You get moved off somewhere else and people didn't want that. That's kind of how I felt.
Graham Baker:I just got on with it. It just fell into the routine of doing work but there's all this stuff going on underneath that I wasn't really processing. Yeah. Which was manifesting itself as either anger, you know, I was very short-tempered, You know, you'd you know, when something would would normally would be viewed, be very stoic about of sort of, oh, you know, whatever it is, it is. I'd be going off the rails shouting.
Graham Baker:That's kind of how I was.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And was was work an escape for you, or was work, equally as bad? To go home, how was home life to come to work and vice versa? Was either of them an escape, or was one
Graham Baker:worse? Escape is probably the right word. It wouldn't be the word I would use, but it was a numbing thing. If I'm doing this, then I'm not thinking about other stuff. It wasn't about thinking necessarily about Scarlett.
Graham Baker:It was more just you're active, you're doing something, you're not sitting with your own thoughts.
Peter Ely:I think one of the things I I wanted to say is I don't think it was just resigned to the police force speaking out in general for men has this real negative or we have this perception that it has this real negative impact on your career. And I think you're right, people think, oh, you can't handle the pressure. So when we give you a job that's got more responsibility, it's gonna have that negative impact, where actually when you do speak out and you actually then are able to manage stuff, you look better because you're looking after your mental health. Right?
Graham Baker:It's the it's the the self imposed stereotypes we're part of ourselves as blokes. We don't we wanna be tough. We don't want to appear vulnerable, but obviously in a in a job as well. And and again, as you as you agree with you, it's not just the place, but it was the place for me because that's what I was doing. That was my job.
Chris Johannes:To be honest, I think we put a lot of these perceptions in place ourselves, but I think there are the odds to manage your positions out there. Hierarchies probably do think like that. These perceptions we've created have come from a real place. I think we're getting better now as a society. I think we're getting recognized of what you said, Peter, that actually those people that stand up and try to make the effort to be better for themselves are now getting recognized as strong for doing that.
Chris Johannes:But I think there are still some negative mindsets towards mental health. I think we all see that in most workplaces. You know, Ben and Graham, I'm sure the police force, you could name a few names that would have that. Well, if you're going to go off sick every time you get a shit job, I'm not going to give you any more jobs. And I think that's the same even down to working at the local McDonald's.
Chris Johannes:I think as managers that probably do have that mentality, and that is something that I'm glad we're seeing change, but I think there's a lot of change still needed. Graham, I do want to sort of explore from my father's perspective a little bit. Something you mentioned is you already had a daughter before Yes. This tragedy happened to you. Now I've got 3 kids myself.
Chris Johannes:My youngest daughter, she's very good at when something unpleasant happens in life, she's very good at talking about it to you. And, you know, when you're trying to deal with things yourself and you've got a young child that's always wants to talk about it or bring it up, and then quite often matter of fact about it. You know, if you lost somebody or something bad happened, they'll keep reminding you, I find, in their innocent way. And it's just them trying to understand it. Did you find that with yours?
Chris Johannes:Did you find having to explain this to a young child, or was she too young for that? I'm trying to gauge the ages there.
Graham Baker:She's 19 now. So she would have been I think she's around about 4 or 5.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. So when she was expecting for you to come home with a sister or you know, those questions come up and those awkward, difficult conversations. But I find those conversations really cut through the shit When you've got little kids that want to talk about the shit stuff, they cut through it. And I find it useful but painful at the same time. I just want to get a bit of a feel of what that experience was like for you and your wife.
Graham Baker:I don't remember exactly the conversation, but we did explain that you're not gonna have a little brother or sister. I think I probably distanced myself because I thought it would be too painful to sit down and and talk with her about things like that. It was a whirlwind for us because it was 2 weeks before Christmas and you've got a young child who's excited for Christmas and and you want her to have that happy Christmas experience and and enjoy herself, you don't want to be moping around or appear to be sort of depressed and upset and all the rest of it. So I think we probably hid the love it from her to a certain extent because we were trying to make it as normal as possible so that we would actually have, or she would certainly have, a good Christmas with other family members and and everything else. So I guess in in answer to your question, I probably skimmed over it, to be fair.
Graham Baker:I don't think I really did sort of go into it. My wife might have been very much more different. I mean, they have a very different mother daughter relationship. She does talk about it now, and we we still celebrate, well, it's not the right word, but we still have a birthday party if you like and a lot of people find that weird but it helps us, you know, it's just a kind of acknowledgement, I think, is probably the right word. We acknowledge that she should have existed, and we'd have a bit of birthday cake.
Graham Baker:It's not like a party thing. We have pizza and and it it's that kind of thing. So we go through that process, but I don't recall ever having an in-depth conversation with a a toddler about death and losing a sister.
Chris Johannes:No. Absolutely. But that speaks volumes to what you already said that you felt that you had to just get on with it and carry on with everything and hold the space for everybody else really. You know, you had your your wife that had obviously gone through the horrific trauma that she had to go through and you had your young daughter looking forward to Christmas in 2 weeks. I can see why you felt that you had to hold yourself up for them.
Chris Johannes:That you had to keep going and keep pushing on. I can see where that would have come from. As a dad myself, I probably would do the same today even knowing what I know. It it is one of those things, isn't it?
Graham Baker:As a parent, you want your children to be happy. You want them to experience the good things in life and you wanna protect them from the horrible stuff. I guess that's kind of how it was. We wanted Sydney to have a great Christmas and spend quality time with grandparents and and everything else, but it was very much behind this front to protect others and help others in what we think. Not necessarily the right thing, but Yeah.
Graham Baker:It's kind of what you do.
Gary Johannes:Can can I ask another question which is related to that, but totally different? Yep. I remember we lost our first child not as late on as you did, and I was really young. I was 21, 22, something like that. And it was just in case my wife lost a baby.
Gary Johannes:It was never a dad thing. Mhmm. It was like it's not a man's issue. I wasn't allowed to have any emotion around it or feelings around it because I'm the man. It's a wife who'd lost a baby.
Gary Johannes:You weren't allowed to have any level of grief or trauma. And if you did, you wouldn't share that because it's your wife who's been through that trauma, not you. Was there any influence of that? But it's like, I'm, man, I'm not allowed to share in this hardship openly with colleagues, with friends because I haven't been where she's been.
Graham Baker:Yeah. I think there is definitely an element of that. I think it's not necessarily all external though. I think there's that self imposed kind of vibe as well, but he was like what I said about the sandstone and I and please don't think that I'm No.
Gary Johannes:No. No. Because
Graham Baker:there are a lot of men that I know that have been through it and have found a fantastic support around it. It didn't fit with my composition at the time and I guess it was that vibe. They it it was talking to the mum first. So it wasn't necessarily blatant, it was very much talking and how about you? It was almost like a second thought rather than being this togetherness thing.
Graham Baker:I'm not giving them a disservice in any shape or form because they do an amazing job.
Benn Baker-Pollard:But it's no different to therapy. Not every therapy is right for each person, so you you pick the
Graham Baker:up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just wasn't it didn't sit with me whether that's because of my personal beliefs or because I was a roughly toughty police officer, I don't know, but there's probably a combination of all those different elements in there.
Gary Johannes:But did that stop you getting the support you needed? Whether it was an internal enforcement of men don't cry or external so we know that one of the biggest causes of PTSD in men is childbirth, but men never get diagnosed because no man's been walking to work on a Tuesday and go, I need a week off work because my wife's had a baby and I'm traumatized. Because it'll just get laughed at. The fact that it's traumatized to him is never taken into consideration by any level. Quite often, we see that.
Gary Johannes:So how did that impact you, Yachen, through this?
Graham Baker:That's a very good question because it's it's probably something that was just parked. I didn't really think about it. When hindsight, it was my feeling the way that the charity approached me, the way that the police approached me, the way that everybody else approached me, probably fed that kind of, well, I'm kind of second fiddle to it, so I'm just gonna crack on and and just get on with what I need to get on with.
Chris Johannes:Absolutely. I mean, we've read your story, Graham, which, is fantastic. We've we've talked about things that didn't work for you, but after reading your story, we know you did find something that pulled you out of that after being signed off sick work with depression. You did eventually find that thing that helped you. I think it'd be great just to share that.
Graham Baker:Sure. So fast forward, I was off sick. To be fair to the police, they did give another 6 sessions of counseling, and and it helped. I'm not saying that it didn't. I would say that it probably wasn't enough.
Graham Baker:And, again, not a disservice to the MET or any other kind of police services is that it felt almost like a lip service to, yes, we look after our staff as a tick in the box. I'm not saying that's true, but that's how I felt. They didn't they didn't really pay attention. They didn't really help. They kind of offered certain amounts of help.
Graham Baker:It probably wasn't enough, but that's not saying it was bad. That's what I'm getting at. Years before that, I used to be in a reservist. I was in the territorial army, so I have always had an interest in the military. I was watching the TV series SAS Who Dares Wins and I followed them on social media.
Graham Baker:One day I saw this post saying that 2 of the contestants from previous series has had been on the show were putting together this kind of support group, this this sort of charity, if you like, to support men who've struggled to deal with loss and bereavement in particular, were struggling mentally and needed a kind of a safe approach to it. And I showed it to my wife, Sam, and she said the first thing is that you need to do that. At the time, I was overweight and struggling with my health in terms of, you know, I was I was fat at the end of the day, and I was and and and basically, the the whole all it said was we're looking for some men. We're putting together this new support group, a charity, and we're gonna meet up, go for a walk, and that's it. There's no kind of hidden agendas.
Graham Baker:There's no pressure at all. There's no pressure to do anything. All it is is just a group of people who've lost and have struggled with it. So went on to The Link, filled performing, and I got accepted to go on this very first weekend in Wales. Considering I'm southeast London, it's not exactly an easy place to get to, and I think that caused me a lot of stress.
Graham Baker:I even remember driving up to it and, you know, when you get to, like, services and then you sort of you come off the services, you go around the roundabout, you go across the bridge, and then you go around the roundabout as if you're gonna go back down there. I did that about 2 or 3 times, and I just nearly came home. But so what happened was is that you just turned up. It's just a group of you don't know anybody. They don't know anything.
Graham Baker:There's no pressure. It's just a group of blokes. They deliberately didn't tell you anything. It was they kind of we're just gonna go for a walk on this Saturday and then we're gonna do something fun on the Sunday. We didn't know anything else.
Graham Baker:It was all a bit overwhelming to be fair. So we had a a couple of drinks. Actually, I remember not drinking. It was all very stifled chit chat, nobody really knew what was going on, and then the next morning we we were at a large tent. We did a hike to the top of Snowdon.
Graham Baker:I know it sounds really weird, but when I tell people this, they sort of look at your face and like, what? Just climbing up a hill is gonna help your mental health and and, and I said yes, but you have to kind of understand what the process is and it it there was no pressure to talk to anybody and you just walked. Little conversations happen especially from a bloke perspective. You're not face to face with anyone. You've got someone going in the same direction standing next to you.
Graham Baker:You're not necessarily looking him in the eye when you start to talk and you just start chatting about all sorts of things, where you're from, what you do, all that kind of stuff, but then this process it just kind of slowly develops and you end up start talking about your story, you start talking about the losses, why they're there, why I was there, and I was hanging. Pardon the expression, I was blowing out my ass quite a lot up that mountain. But it was this supportiveness like, come on, keep it, get one foot in front of the other, so there was that and then there was other times when other guys were struggling, so it was then so it was this kind of banter almost kind of developed on this process of climbing the mountain. I mean, you know, look at it as a metaphor, a group of people coming together, you're going through a challenging event, through that process you get rewarded by making new friends and conversation, it's like, you know, but and that's when it all happens, you can start talking to people and you realize you're not alone and there's people with stories very similar to your own in different circumstances, you know, people who've lost older children, people who've lost siblings, people who've lost parents, and, you know, you sort of say, well why would, how would that be?
Graham Baker:But everyone's got different relationships. It's just not irrelevant. One of the other things that struck me was that it didn't feel like a competition. It wasn't that, well, my loss is worse than your loss. It's loss, full stop and how people have struggled with it, how people have gone on to depression, people have literally come close to ending it because they've lost loved ones.
Graham Baker:It really made you realize that there's this process that you go through that I missed out on the the, you know, the stages of grieving was very much buried all those years ago and and that's why I turned into this kind of bit of a mess, so to speak. I think that process was what worked, and I call it the reset. The big reset for me just it gave me the point to pause, look at what I wanted, look at my life, look at what made me happy. I reset my life by just walking up a hill. Well, it's a mountain effect.
Graham Baker:But it's that process of doing it. And then it's community formed, and we did something fun on the Sunday, we went zip wiring and it just became this outlet to be yourself in front of a bunch of other people. You could be vulnerable, you could still hide it if you wanted to, but there was no pressure at all and I think that's the beauty of it.
Chris Johannes:It feels like you've given yourself permission to enjoy yourself again. That first day is essential to get to grips with whatever you need to with the people you're with and the things you've got to set out. And that second day is, well, I've done that now. I can actually remember what it is to enjoy my life again. It sounds like a really good setup.
Chris Johannes:And one of the things you said that I relate to is that walking side by side, not having to look each other in the face, opens up that opportunity to talk. I am a big believer that I've I've been a trade in a landscaper for many years, working in vans most of my life. And those long drives when you got 2 blokey blokes in a van looking forward are when the deepest conversations happen. I'm a firm believer of that. I think that's a fantastic setup.
Graham Baker:Yeah. A 100%. I couldn't agree more with you. It gives you that and I hate the expression safe space, but that's what it is. It gives you that opportunity to not feel embarrassed or worried about what the other person's thinking.
Graham Baker:They understand what you're going through because they're going or they they don't know that until the end if that, you know, you sort of, like, I didn't realize they got it, if that makes sense.
Gary Johannes:Do do do you feel like because he was on that weekend and you've done a little bit of research, you'd seen they were doing it, you've watched different levels of it, and then you went on that weekend back. Everybody there had been through some form of loss.
Graham Baker:Yes.
Gary Johannes:So there couldn't be any judgment because they're all there for exactly the same reason. So you could be vulnerable because there's nobody looking on from a point of not understanding.
Graham Baker:Didn't do a judge.
Gary Johannes:There's no judgment because No. They're all living in the glasshouse at that point.
Graham Baker:Yeah. No. That that it's so true. I get asked often, you know, how does that work? How can that reset your life just climbing up a bloody mountain?
Graham Baker:Well it does, it worked for me and it works for everyone else that was there and all the subsequent weekends that the charity's gone on to do.
Gary Johannes:It's interesting, Kurt Ben and Peter, me and Christopher, we can all tell you the science behind that. We know exactly what happened from a science point of view, what happened in the brain, what chemicals were released, what catalyst was happening, but actually we can talk the science all day. It's gonna come from I've experienced this, and this is what happened. You know? I mean, that process and what you didn't do until then, I know that Ben and Peter can tell you, well, that's because you never had the opportunity to process it because you went into another stressful job.
Gary Johannes:You had to deal with this. You had to deal with that. So we can tell you what's happened, but, actually, you got to that point where you went just gonna let it all out, and that was huge. Ben and Peter, you've been very quiet.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Great. But looking at your your story, have you got a a young son as well?
Graham Baker:Yes. So we we weren't going to. I think the trauma of losing Scarlett literally straight after it was a case of I can't go through that again.
Benn Baker-Pollard:How did you, how did you get over that?
Graham Baker:Well, it was about 6 months afterwards. We had this weird moment where we had to get rid of a lot of things and I've got this kind of vivid memory of when we got back from the hospital literally taking the baby bath straight down to the charity shop. Long story short, we said we we just can't do that. We can't deal with that kind of trawler, the the thought of going all that period of time and not getting the prize at the end of it. Then about 6 months later, Sam, my wife just burst into tears one day and said I can't do it.
Graham Baker:I can't not have a little brother or sister for Sydney. She had a brother, older brother and stuff. So I think it was that kind of she just wanted to make, you know, have it wasn't about we want another child to compensate anything. It was more about we want Sydney to have that sibling relationship, have a little brother or a little sister. So Sam got pregnant again.
Graham Baker:That was probably even worse at the time because of the stress of going through that period of not knowing where we're gonna win the prize at the end of the 9 months, if you like. And it it was a very, very scary time and very hugely stressful. I'm still in the job. I'm still working as a police officer, and all the stress on Sam as well, thinking about everything. And then what happened and this is where a lot of people just go, what?
Graham Baker:Because of the stress that it was causing, the consultant agreed that Harry could come out early from Sunbridge. It was before the due date effectively, so maybe a month before. But so we had a cesarean. He had a double knot in his cord, and the, the consultant just went, I've, I've never known that. It's rare enough as it is, but to get a cock to 2 babies.
Graham Baker:And I remember during the birth, you're behind the screens, I was at the head end, so to speak, Sam couldn't feel a thing and they just said, oh, yeah. Baby's out. The relief is just beyond words. And then they said, at this point, we still didn't know about the knot. They said, would you like to cut the cord?
Graham Baker:And they just and then they held it up and they went, oh my god. There's a double knot. And then that feeling of if we had not done that and we'd gone full term with Harry, he he had the same would have been the same fate. And then that was just yeah. It was that was probably the the worst time ever, but also the best time ever.
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Graham Baker:Yeah. He's brilliant.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I've been among your family Christmas cards. I think they're they're a great addition.
Graham Baker:We we have a lot of fun. I mean, I'm a photographer, and I I think that, obviously, that was still a while ago, but I was still it was like, yeah. Now we've got Harry. I was then straight back into the thick of it from a police officer perspective. Yeah.
Graham Baker:But now we do I'm better focused, and we do have fun with our Christmas cards and as a photographer we like to get creative and and enjoy that. And he's great, we've got a fantastic relationship. He obviously never knew because he wasn't even born at the time, but he's aware of it because we still acknowledge that on her birthday every year. Yeah. Yeah.
Graham Baker:Yeah.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And have you left the place completely? Have you completely left?
Gary Johannes:Sorry?
Benn Baker-Pollard:You left the place completely?
Graham Baker:100%. Yeah. It was well, the the photography, I I kind of it's kind of linked a little bit, but I was always into photography as a hobbyist. I was, in the reserves and I got to travel quite nicely as well, got to get to the sort of bit of the world. So I always had the camera, a film camera, and then it is significant to the story because I bought a brand new camera just before we were gonna have Scarlett's birthday.
Graham Baker:Born. So I had this brand new camera thinking I'll take lots of pictures of the baby and develop my photography, getting into all that, and obviously we didn't. I actually did take photos. Some people find that a bit strange, but I did take a photograph of my daughter. We have it on a canvas, and it just looks like a sleeping baby.
Graham Baker:It's been horrible, horrible, horrifying as it's just for us. The photography did help quite a lot, and and that's how it kind of organically grew. Back to the Sands Charity, there was a couple that lost their baby at the same time and the mum happened to be a photographer, a wedding photographer, And she reached out what a while later and said, would you fancy helping me out on a wedding one day? And I went, sure. So I did that, and it was a lot of fun.
Graham Baker:Because of that, I started doing a lot more photography during that, those years when I was getting more and more more more depressed. The photography was one, the one thing that did keep me grounded and it just, I never set out to start a business. I was a police officer and that was it. I had no intention of doing photography, but then it was meeting the strong men, having that massive reset, I decided that that was that. I I'm gonna just quit the job and go full time.
Graham Baker:So I was doing it a little bit part time during the the police, and I think by if you're a police officer you'll know that, or ex police or whatever, you'd know that if you earn any kind of money outside of the job you have to declare it as a business interest, and and I think that made it real by doing that. And then everyone said I was mad, but by that point, I got involved with the Strongmen charity. I found my purpose again. I was like, no. I'm not gonna waste another minute working and staying in a toxic environment, toxic for me that is.
Graham Baker:Yeah. I need to go and do what I needed to do. It wasn't great timing though because a year later we went into COVID, which was pretty tough as a photographer when you have to be in the company of others to stay in their photos. But I'm still going and doing quite well so Excellent. Amazing.
Graham Baker:I think I also take a lot of comfort from that that out of all of that trauma, all those shitty times and everything else, I've still got this kind of positive thing that's developed from it. Yeah. Pardon the pun, developed, but I can take comfort that out of a tragedy, you can take some good out of it and propel that forward. So I now get to work from home, I get to work with amazing people and spend more time with my family. That is more important to me than it was being in the police service.
Peter Ely:Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your story because it's amazing. On the website, you talk about manning the phones for the peer support that Strongmen offer. Talk to us a
Graham Baker:little bit about that, please, Grant. So I I think when I've discovered Strongmen, the Strongmen charity, and I went on this walk, I just fell in love with it. It was and I say it with a sense of humor is that it's not woo woo. It's not like oh we're all gonna have a hug and sit and it's not like that. It's quite blokey and it it was my vibe so I wanted to give back.
Graham Baker:That's why I don't mind sharing my story. If one person hears it and it makes them go, actually, that sounds like me, I can then make the strength to step out and get help. Whether it'd be Strongman or another charity or counseling, it doesn't matter, then I've done a service, haven't I? I've given back and it's cathartic. One of the things that started because of COVID was that they couldn't do these weekend breaks, so they started the man to man service, which is a telephone support.
Graham Baker:It's not counselling, so I volunteered for it. I do, like, 6 sessions with somebody. So it's just a kind of a a phone. I'll ring them up once a week, and we just chat about anything and everything. If they wanna talk about their story, they can.
Graham Baker:If they don't, they don't have to. You listen to other people, you chat, and you give them the same vibe of me walking up a hill with somebody next to me not looking at my face. That's the kind of the transition on the phone. You know, I'm working up with someone who's up north somewhere. It doesn't matter.
Graham Baker:We we can have a chat and through that it's just as catharticly for the sense of good for doing something to support somebody else. But when you're hearing those stories it brings it back up for you as well. It's just another little way of processing it. So by doing it, I'm actually helping myself to a certain extent as as well as helping others. I've seen so many guys do that.
Graham Baker:They go on these weekends and then they chomp at the bit to volunteer and help others
Gary Johannes:Yeah.
Graham Baker:Because they see the benefit and you feel the benefit as as as I did.
Gary Johannes:So so what I really like is your number one tip for anyone who's gone through any sort of crisis of how they might actually help themselves.
Graham Baker:It's it's gonna be yeah. It it's gonna be what's the word? Cliche, find someone that you can talk to or find an organization, find someone that works for you. I've been to counselling. I've been to the Sands Charity.
Graham Baker:They didn't resonate with me, so I thought, well, that's life then. I've got to get on with stuff. It was only when I found something that did resonate with me that I realized how much time I'd wasted by not actually just reaching out and asking for help. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable in front of others because that vulnerability is a strength in itself, I think.
Chris Johannes:Gary just said to finish up, I wanted to mention something I think it's a nice point to finish on that. Not only are you really involved in the charity that helped you, but your wife is as well. Your wife's involved with the Sands, I believe. Is that right?
Graham Baker:Yeah. Well, what happened with her, she again, that's why I don't wanna disservice the sand. It didn't work for me, but for her, she found found her path through it. She was an accountant in in the city of London, and she became a befriender. Effectively, what I'm doing with the man to man service, she became a befriender and that gave her inspiration and helped her deal with things and then ended up doing exactly the same thing.
Graham Baker:This was years before me me doing it.
Gary Johannes:I mean
Graham Baker:Went I'm jacking it in. I'm gonna leave the city. I'm gonna and she went back to college and did counselling, studied, is now fully qualified, runs her own practice. So she's now Brilliant.
Chris Johannes:That's fantastic.
Graham Baker:And because of that choice, like, similar to what I said about the photographer, it, we I take comfort that I've found something and so does she. Completely different things, but it's it's what worked for her and what didn't work for me.
Peter Ely:Yeah. The the takeaway that I get from this is that not everything works for everyone, and you have to keep trying. If the first thing doesn't work, try the second thing. If the second thing doesn't work, try the third thing. And just as you did, you keep trying until you find the thing that works.
Peter Ely:I think that's such an important message, and you clearly show that message. So thank you.
Chris Johannes:I'm I'm just so pleased that you and your wife and your family are doing so well now. You know, you've got this amazing life where you're helping a lot of other people, and I think that's an amazing testament to you both.
Graham Baker:No. Thank you.
Gary Johannes:It's it's
Graham Baker:Absolutely. Strong strong men, save my life is probably a bit strong, but they certainly helped me reset and find my purpose again. And and that, I I suppose you could argue, is saving your life, isn't it? To to
Gary Johannes:Certainly making your life again.
Graham Baker:Yeah. And and I think that, you know, I used to joke because obviously Sam went to become a counselor and I used to, you know, I would the occasional, oh, you're a bloody do good. I try now and then and then how the roles reversed as such. Yeah. Yeah.
Graham Baker:You know, I do a lot for the charity now. I do photography for them and Yeah. Whenever I can put my volunteer hat on, I'm there. So
Gary Johannes:So so one of the things I heard from all of that, you've tried lots of different things, but you actually found a tribe. And Oh, yeah.
Graham Baker:I like that. Yeah.
Gary Johannes:We talk a lot about positive interaction. And so many people who are in a depressed state or, you know, they've been through challenges in life isolate themselves. And sometimes talking to a person helps, but actually being part of a tribe, being social, some of the things you did going up and down that mountain and then socialize the next day were collective. And that's actually quite often for men. That's why we play tips, team games and things like that.
Gary Johannes:That tribe is important. So to finish up, I wanna find out where your next step is, how you're gonna support your charity next, and how people can find that charity and find you.
Graham Baker:Yeah. So Strongmen is what it is. Strongmenorg.co.uk is their website. I'll send you the the links anyway. It's totally free to reach out to them.
Graham Baker:People go onto the website. You register for the man to man or you register for the weekend as we call them. And there's lots of information on there and yeah. But one of the big things so it was the 5th year of the charity so this this I don't know the exact numbers because I'm not in the inner circle of the charity but it's pretty much doubled in size in the last 5 years. So when you think about it doing that consistently for the past 5 years, you know that it's working and it's also very much needed.
Graham Baker:Yeah. So the founder, Ephraim, who was one of the contestants off of SAS 2 years wins, it was series 2 when they were in the jungle, and he went, let's do something big to celebrate the 5th year. And, obviously, it's got to be something to do with the mountain, so he said Kilimanjaro as the target to raise money, raise awareness, and all the rest of it. So he put it out there to people involved in the charity who wants to help raise money and awareness and climb Kilimanjaro in October, which is 9 days we fly out there. I think it's 20 of us all together.
Graham Baker:Everyone who's either all the all the guys have definitely all been through it. There's a couple of support people as well with us, and then we're off to climb Kinemannjarra. At at this morning, I think it was the last count. It was, 20,000 that's been raised so far.
Gary Johannes:Fantastic.
Graham Baker:So that's really good and, we want a lot more to to raise. It's quite expensive for under the weekend as I understand it. But, yeah, yeah, I'm hugely looking forward to it, a bit nervous about the altitude and all of that. I think fitness wise, I'm pretty much there. Strong Mirroring was that reset for me.
Graham Baker:They believe in that balance of, you know, good physical health supports good mental health. It does. And getting outside, getting out in the fresh air. We just did it last training weekend on Saturday. I was in the Brecker Beacons running up and down Pennefin.
Graham Baker:It was horrible weather.
Gary Johannes:Yes. It
Graham Baker:was invigorating and, you know, when you in those open spaces, it works.
Chris Johannes:Do you have a JustGiving page for the Kilimanjaro climb or somewhere where people could donate?
Graham Baker:Yeah. It's all on the website. I can share you the links afterwards. I'm not really sure remembering w w but, yeah, it's JustGiving Strongman Kilimanjaro page. You know?
Graham Baker:How can people connect with you? Me from from a business perspective, I'm pretty much everywhere on social media, Graham Baker Photography. My handle is Graham Baker GBP. Pretty much all the platforms as well, so Instagram and stuff like that. Connect with me, follow me.
Graham Baker:I don't just post my work. I do talk a lot about my involvement with strong men and raising awareness for it.
Chris Johannes:Right. Fantastic.
Gary Johannes:So thank you so much for sharing. I'm sure the guys would like to say thank you as well.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you, Graham. I think you and your wife are both a testament to coming out the other side and making a real difference. So thank you for coming on today.
Graham Baker:Yeah. Thank you.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Thank you for sharing something quite personal, but being open and honest, which hopefully even if it's just one other person out there who hears it and it helps them, it's worthwhile.
Graham Baker:I couldn't agree more. That's why I do it.
Peter Ely:Yeah. Thank you so much, Graham. Beautiful story, and and I'm so pleased that things have moved forward for you. Thank you.
Graham Baker:Thank you.
Gary Johannes:So just to finish off, good luck with Kilimanjaro. We'd love to at least have you right up on our wall on Facebook when you get back of how well it went, or even maybe come on and just tell us how you went. We'll put the the information on there once we do. So we look forward to, hearing while you're done. So thank you very much.
Graham Baker:I'm looking forward to sharing the story when I get back.
Gary Johannes:Hopefully, it's a positive one.
Graham Baker:I'm sure it will. I'm looking forward to it.
Gary Johannes:As a photographer, we don't want you to take some photos of any altitude sickness you're getting.
Graham Baker:No. I'm I'm I'm resigned to the fact that I will be taking my camera. Not the big one, but I will be taking a camera up there. Absolutely. Yeah.
Graham Baker:I'm gonna try and do a little vlog as well, track it, and talk about as well.
Gary Johannes:We'll we'll put it on our website for the and our our post as well. Thank you for that. So that's all we're gonna do for the day. Bye bye. Thank you so much, and we're gonna finish our episode today.
Gary Johannes:So thank you for this 5 minute talk.
