Street Art Gave Me Focus And A Way Out - Nathan 'Nice' Murdoch
Welcome to inspired men talk for solution focused therapists born in 4 different decades who openly and honestly discussed their perspectives on the issues surrounding men's mental health, the things that stigma say we don't talk about. So welcome everybody to our latest episode of Inspired Men Talk. Today, we've got an amazing guest. We've got Nathan Murdoch from StreetART, and he's in Peterborough. Very, very prolific, artist, and he's gonna talk about his journey, through all the challenges maybe he's been through, but also how he's become successful.
Gary Johannes:And, we'll get him to share at the end how you can find his stuff. This is a guy whose his work's been, you know, gone viral on social media, so we're really, really pleased to have him. I'm gonna hand straight over to Nathan to introduce himself and give us a little bit of background about who he is and where he is and what he does. Nathan?
Nathan Murdoch:Yeah. Hello. I'm, I'm Nathan Murdoch. I am born and lived in Peterborough my whole life. So I grew up, Yeah.
Nathan Murdoch:No. So, yeah, I I I'm a now with my current life, I'm a professional street artist, but I come from a graffiti background. And, and, yeah, that's what I do full time for the last 6 6 almost 6 years full time. 9 years ago, I started business. But, yeah, it it's, it all just started in Peterborough.
Nathan Murdoch:I thought, you have to ask me a question because I'm using my training for. Ask me if and I'll answer it.
Gary Johannes:Okay. So does anybody have a burning question for Nathan, or should I just ask?
Benn Baker-Pollard:No. Let me if I
Nathan Murdoch:if you don't mind, can
Peter Ely:you what was I mean, I was when I was a kid, I was growing up in the eighties, and, you know, there was a lot of tagging and kinda that sort of thing, and it became criminalized. So what was the graffiti side of thing? Was it that you were doing artwork? Was it that you were tagging? How did it all start for you?
Nathan Murdoch:So, I I I grew up in in a state field in Peterborough, and it was it it weren't the worst. It weren't the nicest. It it was I feel like we were kind of in between. We had a bit of poverty, kids getting into trouble. So I a couple of the kids I hung around with, we were getting into early stages of petty crime, I guess.
Nathan Murdoch:Nothing too serious. More mischievous and just being annoying than than any anything serious. And, one of the lads a couple of doors down from me, he he started like, oh, right. We're gonna do graffiti. I didn't really know much about it at that time.
Nathan Murdoch:I was like, what it's about? But sort of followed his lead, and and we started writing our names, first of all in the school. So on the on the school walls all over, you know, this is I'll be I'll be 39 this year. So so I started when I was 13. So I'll be late late 99 about that time.
Nathan Murdoch:So Internet was was not really existent or Yeah. You know, I I don't even know if I had a PC in my household then. It was a it was a time for me that if you had a PC in your household, you you as wealthy. Like like, it was it was an unusual thing around where I live. So, like, we didn't have a PC for a long time.
Nathan Murdoch:Certainly, we didn't have the Internet. The The only place I'd see the Internet was at school. No social media. So it's like trying to understand what graffiti was was looking around just, you know, where you live and and bits people told you. So this guy I grew up with, he he sort of said, oh, we're gonna start this graffiti crew.
Nathan Murdoch:And, we started this crew called MIS, Menace in Society, based loosely on the film Menace 2 Society. And And it was just like it didn't really mean anything, but it was me, him, a couple a bit of an unusual group. There was a there was a girl with us. There was a a a travelling lab with us. We all we all went to all went to the same school, and we just started writing our names around.
Nathan Murdoch:And then, then as you start doing that, then you start looking at whatever whatever sort of names are are written on the walls. And that was where it that's where it kinda started. Then I started to take more take more notice into more prolific names in the city, and then you like, we start aspiring to, like, I wanna know who that person is. I wanna meet them people. And it there was still there was a long period of time, maybe my first couple of years, where, like, I met other people that knew about graffiti, but not it was, like, quite a secret thing.
Nathan Murdoch:People didn't wanna share with you. And then when because you didn't know it, you were sort of victimized for not knowing this. Like, I remember I remember being in Wellands. I never stayed in Peterborough, and a guy and a and a guy gave me a tin of paint. He said put a hit up on that wall when he gave me this cat.
Nathan Murdoch:I didn't know what he meant by put a hit on the wall. Like, I kinda stood there. He meant put a tag on the wall, but I was like even just that little bit of terminology, I was like, don't know what that means. I'm just standing here like a walling. Like, I couldn't tag or anything.
Nathan Murdoch:So it was like it was it was a difficult sort of, you know, graffiti is very, very masculine or it was very masculine, very egotistical. You know, it's, it it was a tough a tough time getting in that era, but it it it shaped me good and bad, good and bad for for my my opinions of the culture now. But, yeah, it was, it yeah. It all start it all started from just being troublesome teenagers. I I first got arrested.
Nathan Murdoch:I guess I remember before that. I first got arrested. It would have been I don't know when it would have been, actually. I think I was year 7. So I first got arrested.
Nathan Murdoch:I was with 3 other guys, and they'd they'd stolen a car that was kind of already stole like, it was already, like, hot wires. So it already been stolen by someone else, and then they kinda restold it from another estate. And I was just there. I was just I was just there, you know, just just following the lead of these other people. And, and then we got arrested on on, a bridge we call Sainsbury's Bridge.
Nathan Murdoch:Gary will know what Sainsbury's Bridge is. So I got arrested on top of that. Teachers coming by, seeing it's a little bit embarrassing. But I feel like that was the turning point. It was like, I was either gonna go down that route or I found graffiti, which was still a crime, but it was it felt like a lesser crime.
Nathan Murdoch:So it was, you know, it was it felt less like like, there was less more people less people gonna get harmed. It felt more mischievous than it did, you know, hurting people, and I think that that was it. A few a few people I know went more down that that kind of route, more serious crime. Some of them went to jail. Some of them not here anymore.
Nathan Murdoch:And I just started writing my name around, and that that was the the early part of it. So
Gary Johannes:So Nathan so I do know that, which particularly well, I drive over every single day because I still live just around the corner from there, just where you're talking about. So you're probably one of the people who I see the graffiti you did 20 years ago. But interestingly, because I do come from a similarity to you, you know that, you know my family. So many people are pulled in to crime
Nathan Murdoch:there. Yes.
Gary Johannes:You know, that that that is an area where you few people escape from that crime. It's almost, a level of expectation. So what stopped you? You know, your influences. I know the school you went to.
Gary Johannes:My children went there or so. So it's so you know, it was so easy. I mean, were you influenced to be on the wrong side of it but chose not to?
Nathan Murdoch:It was definitely definitely, like, you know, peer pressure paid, mass massive element. It was, you know, we're we're so I was in East Field. You had Welland where you were the other side. I had Saxon Road the other side. So I was kind of in the middle, and I always felt like we weren't we didn't really have enough street presence to be like to to to have like, to be hard as, you know, as Welland was a tough group of kids, Saxe and Robe was and then we were just in the middle, and we weren't really anything.
Nathan Murdoch:But we kinda floated between both sides wherever we could get an alliance. And it and it was yeah. I I I don't know. It was it was just it was just I think survival was was almost your the peer pressure you give into. It I I said to someone the other day, you know, in recent times, I said, in the sort of social chain of command, I said I wasn't at the top and I wasn't at the bottom.
Nathan Murdoch:So, like, I got bullied from the top. And then because I was bullied from the top, I bullied a little bit further down. You know? And and some of them people I've reengaged with in adult life and and sort of said, I met a gentleman recently that I knew from a long time ago, and I said, was I ever unkind to you? And he and he stood there and thought about it, and he said, you wasn't.
Nathan Murdoch:But people you were with were, and I was just like, you know, I can't ever change that, but I'm forever sorry. You know? And that that was that was the the environment we were in. But as I you know, the more I thought about it, it was like things that happened to me, then this sort of, like, cascade is down. So it's like 1 at the top of the chain.
Nathan Murdoch:And I and I think, yes, survival in that time was it was how how how much you follow and how much you could sort of give give out. It was a kind of not making people scared here, I guess. It's kind of just, yeah, just just trying to fit trying to fit in. You know? I I said to someone the other day, things I remember as I was growing up.
Nathan Murdoch:I remember being in the woods behind Hill Close, down in Saint Luke's Bridge, and the and the guys to hang around with me told me to run through these woods while he shot at me with an air gun. And he and then, when he hit me and I crawled out there, he continued to shoot me, and I crawled out. Just things like that. Like, nothing back. I'm like, yeah, that really weren't okay.
Nathan Murdoch:You know? That or the time, you know, we played pool and I missed the shot, so I had the cue smashed across the back of my legs, put me on the floor. That really went, you know, and so forth. There were things like that, and that that was the group I was trying to fit in with. But I was sort of, like, the the weaker one of that group.
Nathan Murdoch:But then, I I feel, you know, as I got older, like, then some of that mentality and behavior are passed down to people that were kind of in that you know, sat lower in that social chain, and it and it was I never see it till I I never see it till I I got older and understood. You know? And some of them people you know, there's one guy particularly, that you probably know of from whether he's not from he don't live there anymore. But I'm gonna say this. So the last 20 year he's my he's my friend's little brother.
Nathan Murdoch:Last 20 years, he's been threatening to, like, kill me and and all sorts of stuff. Some really severe stuff. He certainly has a lot of problems, and I feel like, you know, the area we grew up in, where he sat in society, his family, all of them things played a part in the way he is now. And that we speak to him now, trying to help him. And we say, like, you know, we we can't we can't change the past and stuff, and and I totally understand how things that happened to you will have affected you, but it's like, you know, I believe let me get my words right.
Nathan Murdoch:I believe, yeah, someone's passion and define them forever. You know? Like like, that's it. A A lot of people do bad things at at one point in their life, but it doesn't mean that bad thing is gonna be that person forever. It doesn't work for everybody, but it works for a lot of people.
Nathan Murdoch:Whoever said to him, I can't I can't change anything from the past. Things I did, things I people I was with, you know, but I'm forever remorseful for anything that I personally did or was around. But, yeah, it it it was very much fitting in fitting in. I say, like, I I took my fair share of of hard times, and I and I and I I don't think I would give them out as bad, but I I certainly, you know, was unkind to a lot of people. You know, and and that's something I forever have to live with.
Nathan Murdoch:It it was it was part of just, yeah. I always think, like, it wasn't something I ever wanted to do. It was the environment I was in, the people I was around created that situation for me. So And that's
Peter Ely:I think that's a a very common thing that, you know, we see. Survival is all about our tribe. Right? It's about finding the tribe that you you can kind of run with. And then, you've done that.
Peter Ely:You've actually kind of moved away from that. You've changed your tribe, which is an amazing thing to have done and to to achieve. And I think that's, you know, that's just an amazing thing for us.
Gary Johannes:But, Ben, you know, you've worked the main streets of South London, as a serving police officer, so you were running the Nathan or his peers of a different general different tribe. But you also seen a lot of this sort of stuff on a personal level in in some ways. What's your thoughts on what you've heard?
Benn Baker-Pollard:Yeah. I think there's there's always 2 elements there. And particularly in London, for instance, there's a lot of organized recruitment effectively grooming to get people into that way of life. And I think there's there's 2 sides to it. There's people who live in a circumstance that's unfortunate and they fall into that way of life, or there's people who are targeted as and recruited in through a grooming process, which is what we're seeing more in in the gang world, particularly in London now.
Benn Baker-Pollard:They go and stand outside school gates and recruit 12 to 13 year olds by grooming them, buying them clothes, building that up until they're in debt, and then bringing them into the environment and making them do the dirty work for them. It sounds like, you know, Nathan, you wanted to fit in. You wanted to be part of something, and and you've ended up going down that route. But what for what was a turning point for you that made you decide you wanted to change?
Nathan Murdoch:I think, oh, I I think I I had quite a negative mentality. Hate hated my city, hated the place around me, and and I certainly put out a lot of negative energy to to people. Like, I definitely went through a period in my life, you know, you'd tell me something and I and I'd be one of the people who have to say something to drive better at life. You know? And and it was maybe in my mid twenties.
Nathan Murdoch:I kind of I had this realization that I had a I had a lot of people stick by me even when, you know, even when I was at my worst. And that I don't know where it come from, but I was just like, you know, some of them people were still in contact now, and and I I could never understand, you know, even when I was I wasn't a pleasant company, why why why stand by me? But they did. And that's why I was yeah. As I got older, it's, in fact, I I yeah.
Nathan Murdoch:I know what check what what big project changes. I'm 39 this year. I can count on toes the amount of people I've seen that are no longer here that have not reached my age. And every time I go to a funeral, it's made me take analyze life. Like like, you know, the first the first time it was shocking.
Nathan Murdoch:Now it's become part of normality, you know, like, people, but I say it really made me think about, like, my own life, like like like how short things are, how how unpredictable things are, the choices you make. I say there was one particular one that Gary probably might even know the lad. There was a lad I grew up with called Lewis Rosser. He lived around the corner from me, and, he took his own life many years ago. Left 2 children, And, you know, I knew his family.
Nathan Murdoch:And I I I specifically remember, like, I I can picture it now. I watched his mom cry into a hole in the ground and the sound and everything, it really, like, it really made me think about my life and, like like, all the choices you make, all the things you do, what's important, what's not important. And then when you repeat that multiple times, you know, I've seen enough tragedy to to to learn from, you know, from them times. And and it tragedy made me tragedy sped me up to a place I needed to be a lot quicker, unfortunately. And it it it I really that just that whole thing got me thinking about life.
Nathan Murdoch:People who people who experience lots of tragedy, and I think you can either take it in a negative way and and let let that consume you, and put that energy out or or you can kind of take something from it in a positive to make your own life better. And and I feel like, yeah, tragedy, things I've seen, things I've been around. That that was the start to change because I feel like, you know, I could've easily followed many paths. And as I as I got older, my my my father, he he's as in my adult life, my father's been in jail more times than I can count now. Right?
Nathan Murdoch:Done some long sentences. And and, you know, like, looking at him, he's he'd be he'd be 60 now. 60 we we haven't spoke for a long period of time now, since he was in jail for COVID and stuff like that, and it's I don't know. Analyzing his behavior, I've got a lot of his negative traits. Like like, I can control them much better, but I certainly have some of these traits within me.
Nathan Murdoch:And it and it's kind of there's so many times I feel like I could've followed his path. Like, you know, and and being and being really honest here, last last year before Christmas, my dad's my my dad's never really resettled since he came out of jail after COVID. Lost his property. He was homeless really well. My so my brother and my dad were both homeless last year last, last sort of summer to winter.
Nathan Murdoch:Like, my brother still have time for, but I was just like, you know, my dad's got a lot of mental health issues, violence, and various things. Substance abuse. My brother has kinda got learning difficulties, but easily influenced and stuff like that. And I and out of the 3 of us, I'm the only one who's just about to hold it hold it together. But it was like, you know, all the all these things that have happened in life, like, a lot of sadness, a lot of tragedy, they all kind of shaped me like I don't wanna be like that.
Nathan Murdoch:And, you know, one of the one of the conversations I had with my dad when he was in jail a few years back going back quite a long time. One of the middle times he was in jail, I said to him and and he weren't he didn't like it, but I said one of the best things you ever give me was sort of what not to be in life. And, you know, in growing up from where I'm from, it's you're either you're a product to your environment or or you do something, you know, it it sends you the opposite way. And and for me, all different things as I got older, I I wanted to not become that. So yeah.
Nathan Murdoch:And there's there's all different but tragedy, sadness led me to where I am now to a more positive way of thinking.
Benn Baker-Pollard:But, I mean, that's that's amazingly inspiring, Nathan. It it it changed. Been through is phenomenal. And and to to come out and turn out the way you are and to change your life around is phenomenal. I've got loads of questions I could be I could continue talking over everybody, but I know Chris has got his hand up here.
Benn Baker-Pollard:So I'll I'll Well, I'll and I'll let you I'll ask another one in a minute. But
Gary Johannes:I'm intrigued to find out what Christopher's gonna say because he basically grew up in the same environment.
Chris Johannes:I did. And like everybody else was saying, it's amazing to hear you talk about the way you chose to live your life the way you are. And, you know, you recognized where you wanted to be. You didn't want to stick in that place where you you could have easily chose to stay. You chose to move on, and I think that's great.
Chris Johannes:But the question I actually wanted to ask is one constant clearly for you has always been the artwork. You you spoke a little bit about how it all started. I mean, when first of all, when did it become artwork to you? When did you go, okay. This is now me doing art and this is my passion?
Chris Johannes:And, when did you realize that that was the that constant thing in your life that, you know because you now pass that on to other people. You work with children in schools and and everything like that, which is an amazing thing to do, knowing the benefits of what you do. When did all of that come about? How did that come to you?
Nathan Murdoch:I think so I see it as a form of escapism, and and people use different things as forms of escapism, I guess. And it's so from when I started painting in the in the earlier years, it was a little bit difficult up and down. And then there's plenty of times I wanted to quit in that in that period. But, you know, for me, it was a form of it was my form of escapism. Some people I know did drugs.
Nathan Murdoch:Some people drank. Like, graffiti was was was that kind of thing. And it was I think a lot of people don't realize about graffiti as a culture. So so for for context here, street art is a subculture of graffiti. Graffiti is the the mother, the parent.
Nathan Murdoch:The first culture that existed started in America, transferred over to, to different countries, whatever. But street art graffiti, 2 different cultures. Graffiti, masculine, toxicity, competitive, all all of them things full of negative traits. But the thing that that most fascinated me was it's, what I learned quite early on in graffiti, there's no prejudice. Doesn't matter.
Nathan Murdoch:Black, white, rich, poor. Because we share that interest, It's really good at unifying people. So quite early on, coming from a place that's quite narrow minded in thinking where, like, you know, grabbing a certain area, everyone thinks a certain way, and opinions. And then sort of as I started to meet more people in graffiti, I think my love grew for not it's it's less about if you speak to many graffiti artists that have been around as long as I like the net songs I have, it's like you know, we all love the art, but everyone loves the social side more. Like like, it it's it's it's what people don't realize when they say mindless vandalism.
Nathan Murdoch:It's like graffiti has introduced me to people of all walks of life, that you wouldn't meet in a normal context, in a normal job from, like, from addicts to career criminals to normal people. Like, I've had a bit of influence or shared their stories with all of them people. It's traveled me all around the UK, things that I would never normally do. And I think that that helped convert my passion because coming where I'm coming from, a lot of people are in Peterborough their whole life, and then they hate it. And, and we come to this theory is they hate it because they got no other comparison.
Nathan Murdoch:It's like all they know is because that's all they've ever seen in life, whereas, like like, I travel up and down the country. I've been to places that are rough. Peterborough is not quite rough, like, not what people think. And it's and it's like yeah. I feel like without this culture, I wouldn't have this culture changed my whole mentality, like, people, experiences, and all of that.
Nathan Murdoch:And then it's I think in that so I went through this period of I did it for fun. I got I wanted to quit loads of times because I didn't think I was good enough. Didn't think I could compete enough. And then then I sort of met I realized I found this social side, meeting people on a such more broader, you know, wider than Peterborough. So so I started to see, oh, that I can make friends with, you know, further away and and learn new experiences.
Nathan Murdoch:And then I think from that, I really found a love for it again. And then once I started traveling outside of Peabody, so before the Internet days, graffiti was very, very regional. And we we I was literally having a conversation with someone last night. So from our area, we we call regional styles. So Peterborough had its own graffiti style.
Nathan Murdoch:Leicester had its own graffiti style. London had its own graffiti style. Whereas now, the Internet because everything you see everything from the screen about traveling. Graffiti is now amalgamated of countries, cities. There isn't a definitive style anymore.
Nathan Murdoch:So, like, some of us who are are from a different generation, like like the new graffiti people don't get it because their style was made up of a subconscious influence. Whereas for us, it was made up by that small area. So I think, yeah, as I started to travel more, started to meet more people and, you know, just, broadened my horizons to to what was available in the world and and, experiences, that regrew my love for it. And then, you know, I never oh, I'll get asked a lot, you know, about sort of doing it for work, Like, you know, like, how do you do that and stuff. I said, I never ever did graffiti to make money, ever.
Nathan Murdoch:I did graffiti because I loved it, and it and it, you know, introduced me to people. That was it. Making money from it was completely by accident. My my last job my last real job was a health and safety manager for Fairline Yachts in. So 50 year old British prestigious company.
Nathan Murdoch:I started that job. I wore shirt, trousers, and I thought this is gonna be my last job. Like, I worked I did health and safety in print before that. I did it in leather before that. Very normal.
Nathan Murdoch:Got into I I learned about corporate life, board meetings, dealing with directors, and I kind of enjoyed that. I enjoy a little bit of hustle in that environment business. And then, you know, I started at Fairline, and I thought, this is my this is my life now. Like, I'm I'm gonna be here around yachts. I can do
Chris Johannes:that. Mhmm.
Nathan Murdoch:And then, like, completely by accident, like, the demand for street art, because street art's the more polished side that people enjoy. As the demand grew for that, it put me in a position where I had to do 1 or the other. And then, I had a conversation with my wife on my main income, got 2 kids, married. And it's like it got to a point where I was working full time in my office job, my day job. I was earning half half my annual salary working weekends and evenings.
Nathan Murdoch:And it's like, right, you gotta do one or the other. So I was 32 years old, and I thought, I'm young enough to take that risk. So, I handed in my notice. And I had this conversation, and and, my boss was like, you know, he he lives in Marbella most of the time, had a yacht, and he scratches it. And he goes, you're leaving here to go right on garage doors.
Nathan Murdoch:And I was like, well, not not quite. But he's like, I forget it. I don't get it. I was like, yeah. It's not quite like that.
Nathan Murdoch:And then my my other boss, another director, you know, he owns a yacht as well. And he was just like he's like, I don't get it. But he said, like, you know, they're all successful people, so they they, like, they understand, like, your aspiration to sort of do something. And I just said, you know, I feel younger. I feel like if I don't take this risk now and I get to 40, I'll always wonder, like, what if I'd done that?
Nathan Murdoch:And I said, like, I'd I'd rather try and fail than not try at all. So I left I I put in my notice. I was on 3 months notice. They give me a very good pay rise just because I don't know who listened to this. They give me a very good pay rise to stay.
Nathan Murdoch:Most money I've ever earned in my life. And then it offered me a deal to to, you know, foresee my career out. I lasted 3 months. My heart was telling me I have to go. So I ended up doing 6 months extra from from this initial idea, and that was 6 years ago now.
Nathan Murdoch:So and then, you know, from then, yeah, life experiences, the way I think, everything kinda changed. But, you know, this art this art form, something that got me into a role because I've got I've got 2 graffiti convictions. I've got 2 graffiti convictions, but I've been arrested for graffiti twice and stopped multiple times. But, yeah, this thing that once got me into trouble introduced me to a whole new wealth of people, life experiences that that I never could have comprehended, particularly coming where I come from. It was, you know, I said to someone the other day, like, I don't I don't once I live a on on pay on paper, I said to my wife recently, on on paper, we are, like, we are middle class now.
Nathan Murdoch:Like, all all the things I do, I thought we're middle class. And I was just like, you know, we we we were at the lower end of that, but I was like, we are a bit more in a privileged life. And I was just like, to come from where I come from to where I am now, I still keep I I don't know how it happened. I I can't I never foresee it. I didn't know it was gonna happen.
Nathan Murdoch:It it it's surreal at times. It's surreal, like, because there's so many times. Choices I made, things I did, people I was around, it could have been so different so different many, many times. You know?
Gary Johannes:Interesting, Nathan. You've said about 4 or 5 times where I came from, where I come from, and I obviously know where you come from. But interestingly, how many other people because we can talk about all the people who didn't make it, all the people who are still not making it, and all the people who are still living a challenging life. But, actually, how many people from those areas where you've discussed have, actually, do you look around and go, actually, look, they're doing alright. They're doing alright.
Nathan Murdoch:Yeah. I say, I I I listen to I I spend a lot of time alone painting. I listen to a lot of music, and I I listen to a lot of people's stories in music and stuff like that, and there's there's a line that I always use in this conversation. There's a line by a rapper, and he says, everybody wants to make it out, but no one wants you to make it out. And there's a lot of truth in that.
Nathan Murdoch:And I I I take I love I love speaking to people that come from that area and have been successful. And, you know, and successful doesn't have to be doing having enough money. Just just doing something doing something good. Like, any and that could be anything, even on a small scale. But, you know, one of the guys who worked for me, who works for me, he comes from Breton.
Nathan Murdoch:You know, he he he won't mind me saying this. He's, because I've got copies of all our DBS for work. His DBS is about 8 pages long. So Mhmm. Got some there.
Nathan Murdoch:But, you know, you know, for a long time, he he had that mentality of he couldn't shake that he had to impress them people from where he come from. It's like, although we've moved on from that and we're trying to better our lives, when you were there, it's like you still cared what they think. And I said I said, them people, they they they don't they don't they're not happy for you. They want to keep you where they are. And I said it it it's a sad mentality and and, you know, always been rude with in the past, but I was like, if people don't wanna support you in moving forward, it's like they're not the right people to be around.
Nathan Murdoch:So, you know yeah. I mean, I I've met quite a few people who've have have made it sort of out of their areas now, and it's that makes me feel good. And it and it and it's, you know, when people people say the same to me, it's nice to hear positive story. And then
Chris Johannes:You you spoke about those people who try and keep it down, Nathan, which I think we've all experienced that at some point in our lives. Absolutely. You know? How do you find that now with social media? I know that you're getting quite big on social media.
Chris Johannes:You're going quite viral. And those people, are they is that still something you're you're battling with? And how do you deal with it?
Nathan Murdoch:I get massive not massive. That's the wrong word. I get a large proportion of negativity, generate more so from people I know. I have a I have a gentleman at the moment that is regularly attacking my work. Yeah.
Nathan Murdoch:It's some particularly since I've had more of a public profile, come come to get used to it. And I and I say to people, like, someone said to me years ago, don't read the comments. As I read all the comments now, and I reply I generally reply to everything. And I always reply what I was told as a kid, you know, you speak to people that you wanna be spoke to. So people are nice to me, they're nice.
Nathan Murdoch:If people are rude, I'm never, you know, if I'm responding to a negative comment, I always think, right, don't make it personal because that that's too far. But, like, you know, I sort of give context back, try and make it into a joke more than anything, but speak to them in the same way. But, yeah, like always said to people, anyone doing anything in the public eye, be prepared for negativity, particularly in social media, and get comfortable with it, to be honest. Because I said it will it will send you if you if you let it, it it will, it it it will it will affect you. It will affect you in a negative way.
Nathan Murdoch:But, you know, I've had things someone I had a guy never met in my life on one of my videos a day. He's like, he picked on the size of my forehead. I was just like I laughed it off. I was just like, okay, mate. Like, you know, I had to I had to respond, but, you know, I wasn't rude about it.
Nathan Murdoch:I just sort of, like, said something sarcastic. But I just like like just that stuff as petty as that. So, you know, some stuff gets quite personal and but my worst my worst negativities are people I know. I say, I've got one gentleman at the moment that we have had some conversation in the last 9 months that he's been on this this this, attack. But he he doesn't want to answer my questions.
Nathan Murdoch:He sent me loads of abuse a couple of weeks ago, loads of vile language, and I just said to him, I was just like, how do we move like, first of all, how do we move forward, and what are you trying to achieve? Just blanked me and sent more abuse, and it's I found the more little bits of success out, more people more people appear. There are there are times it's certainly challenging. And I and I had, I had a bit of a mini breakdown on last 2 last Tuesday. Last Tuesday.
Nathan Murdoch:I I had a bit of a I had a bit of a nervous breakdown, to be honest. And, I had I the the the emotions I felt in that period of time was, was I didn't really like the thing that hit me, I didn't realize it's gonna happen. So I got I dropped my kids off to school, and I come back, and I nearly smashed up my own studio. And and, like, I didn't know that was gonna happen. It's just just like like like like the the straw that broke the camel's back just hit me.
Nathan Murdoch:And it's partly because an individual that's been been causing me a lot of hassle over a long period of time. And, but I say, it just kinda built up built up. And, you know, again, someone else I listened to, he talks about emotions. And he said, like, them them things. If he said, if it lets you consume you, you've lost.
Nathan Murdoch:And in that moment, I've lost. Because as I've got older, I've got really good at analyzing my behavior afterwards. And afterwards, I thought in that in that moment, I had I had no rational thought. I was angry. I was sad.
Nathan Murdoch:I was capable of doing something probably really stupid because I was there was no there was no common sense left in me. But it it took me a long time to get to that period, and it was it was really tough. And I had some good people around me that that, that supported me through and but that was my my my threshold. It's pretty good, like, over over the years.
Gary Johannes:So when you have when you have moments like that, because I think all of us have been there, and, you know, people listening to this will either be there, been there, or on the way there. That was last Tuesday. You're sitting on talking to us now on a Monday, so less than a week. How did you deal with that, get out of that and move forward and get back to your art, get back to your family? You had to pick the kids up.
Gary Johannes:How did you do that? Because that's interesting.
Nathan Murdoch:Some someone asked me a little while ago, how do I stay positive? And I was like, it was quite it was a difficult question to ask. But I said, particularly, as I got older, I've learned I said I always say to people, it's not something you can learn overnight. It's not something you can learn in a few weeks. It's a repetitive nature that you have to teach yourself over months, years, and then it gets easier.
Nathan Murdoch:So as I've got older, though, I've I've got easier at then it gets easier. So as I've got older, though, I've I've got easier recovery. So, like, went to a that was a real peak for me. The other Tuesday was, I couldn't even tell you in the last, maybe, 10 years how many times I've felt like that. Because it probably did probably never.
Nathan Murdoch:There were all that maybe one of a close incident. But but, like, my you know, they were on a hand they were on a handful. My my lowest point in my life was in 2019 that I can recall. And then other other than a point of, like, really extreme emotional risk that it was possibly this Tuesday. But like I I think yeah.
Nathan Murdoch:It it took me it took me a good day, but then sort of by Wednesday, I sort of back to normal. And, yeah. And someone else did someone I know who's having trouble has asked me this. How do I do it? And I said, yeah.
Nathan Murdoch:It's not it's not days. It's not weeks. It's months years. It's it's sort of I feel like you have to replace again, it's letting something consume you. When you're sad, if you let it consume you, like like like, it's really easy to, what's to say?
Nathan Murdoch:Visor, he loves company. You know? Like, if you go talk to people, just, like, don't, imprint your nigger. Like, just try to bring everyone down. It's like you you've gotta start thinking of of your reasons, the things that make you happy, the reasons to live, and all that, and and training yourself time after time after time.
Nathan Murdoch:And I and I find recovery, you know, like, I went I went through that real sad point, but then I think, yeah, I've got to see my children. I've got, like I don't like my children. Not to see that I'm weak. I don't like my children to see that I don't like my children to lose out because because I'm having a bad time because I don't I don't like, my time with them, I'm I'm very conscious, it's limited. I might not be here tomorrow and all them things.
Nathan Murdoch:So it's like, the time I spend with them, I want them to always have me at my best or as close to my best as I can be. So it's things like that. It's like, my children need me. So this state of mind that I'm in right now, I need to move on from that quickly because other people need me, and and that's what I've gotta be strong for. And that that kind of tuning over years, days, weeks, repetitiveness has has made me in a I can recover quite quickly from from hard times because, you know, you always feel you can't you can't change something that's happened.
Nathan Murdoch:Like like, you know, you can only change what you do next. So dwelling on you know, even the even the guy that's given me so much hate and, a lot of negativity right now. I said to someone the other day, I was like, I'm pretty sure I can shake his hand and forgive him and move on. If he said to me, right, that's it. Move on.
Nathan Murdoch:So I don't really ever wanna spend time with the guy, but I said, like, I'm not gonna hold that grudge against him, like, forever and 10 years down the line. It's just like, let's just move on, and I'll forget it. I'll forget it. I can easily not forget.
Gary Johannes:So you're not carrying anything with you? You No. Well, that's amazing.
Nathan Murdoch:Took year years years years years. You know, in in 2019, when I paid the kid flip year or my first year that went globally viral, That was a time in my life I had had the most money I've ever had in my life. Had a wife, had children, every everything. Had all these things that people aspire to have. Like like, I was comfortable in in emotions in life, but for reasons I can't explain, I had my lowest point I'd ever felt.
Nathan Murdoch:Like like, it's the closest the closest I'd ever think I'd ever got to possibly taking my own life or or giving it lots of consideration. And, and I can't explain why that happened. It was like, you know, there's been there's been times I've had them thoughts in my head again. But in that that moment in time was the the closer they ever been, and I sank myself into that painting. I sank myself into that painting over 3 days.
Nathan Murdoch:I consulted with a couple of people that I had a relationship but not a strong relationship with And someone I know who who who did attempt to take their life recently, and I said to them, I was like, if if you can't talk to people, you know, talk to a stranger because I've I've certainly found it's hard to talk when you're feeling low, it's hard to talk to people, you know, and I and I think it's a different thing. But talk to a stranger. There's someone willing to listen. There's 2 people called me out of a of a time, and it said I said that was the lowest point I've had in my life. And then from that point, I sort of I don't know.
Nathan Murdoch:I've managed to build a strength for it. So I've got like, I hit the lowest point I could go without going too far, and then I and then I've I've come back stronger, You know? And and and, again, the words of someone else that I listened to, he said, we can't we can't appreciate we can't appreciate the blessings with with the difficulties. You go and then someone else said to me, you know, we can't have peace without war. And that's what I kind of feel like.
Nathan Murdoch:I was like, I had I had to go to them really hard, horrible places to be where I am now. Like like, that that's the only thing that's got me here is seeing the other end and and sort of, and building not let but, you know, the I think the click the key in the hard thing is not letting it beat you. It it's it's, yeah, repetitiveness, training, full but, yeah, you know, mind strength.
Gary Johannes:What what I'm hear what I'm hearing now is someone at schooling, some of that life of hard knocks, what you had, has helped you be a little bit tougher, not lose.
Nathan Murdoch:Yeah.
Gary Johannes:Even it would have been it's on the edge a lot of the time because a lot of people think that that actually, in some ways, come back. I'm gonna go to Ben because I know Ben's got a 1,000 questions, but we're gonna ask Ben if he's got any really nice questions because he's got some rubbish questions that may not have heard him. And then he's gonna and then we're gonna ask you about what you do now to help other people to finish the podcast off and then promote, you know, what you do. Ben Sure.
Benn Baker-Pollard:No. It's kind of going backwards a little bit now, but the point you've mentioned a few times is that you were arrested.
Nathan Murdoch:Yes.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And, obviously, I'm interested to know, at any point, have you seen the police as people who can give you the support or could have helped you in the times where you were struggling, or have they always been? And do you still view them as being that consequence and unpaid bill? Because the ethos is changing, and we are trying to become or view people who get roped into things like that more like victims. We're not saying that they shouldn't, you know, be held responsible for the the things that they do sometimes, their actions and their consequence, but there is a real need to change a shift in just slamming everybody down and, you know, making it a consequence all the time when, actually, sometimes these people are taken into a way of life because they have been groomed or or something similar. So I'm interested to know, what do you view the police as?
Benn Baker-Pollard:Are they always a consequence? Are they the bad thing? Or did you ever see them as maybe hope, support, or a way out of what you were stuck in?
Nathan Murdoch:I don't I don't dislike the police, but I can't I can't think of many positive experiences, being really honest. So when I when I first got arrested, would have been 2,000 and 1. 2,009 2,001 was the first time I got arrested for graffiti. I got arrested again in 2004, I think it was. 2004, and that that was when that was when I got a couple of eviction.
Nathan Murdoch:At at that time, you know, still camera phones, I don't think even existed at that point. You know, early days in the Internet. Different different time. I had a policeman in gen in in general, and, he he see me on a Saturday, and he grabbed me by the collar of my my clothes, pushed me in the doorway, and told me that he's going to make sure that I get prosecuted. Not like and I didn't feel like I could go like, you know, my mother I was I was a young young adult at this point.
Nathan Murdoch:And I told my mom when, like, she wanted to go do and I was like, there ain't there ain't nothing we can do. Like like, there's no like, they you know, this guy, they they called me up, put me in a cell for a number of hours, then let me go. Just just mess with me. Like Mhmm. And that that would you know, I understand that was a different time, but, like, for me, I don't ever feel like I didn't you know?
Nathan Murdoch:I come from a loving family, but it was the environment that sort of changed me. Like like, you know, my my family my mom or my mom's side, my mom and that, mom and grandma are normal people. It was just my environment sort of changed me. Whereas I feel like that that person in general, I feel like yeah. He he had a real hatred for graffiti, like like and and wanted a conviction, and I and I was that target in that time.
Nathan Murdoch:You know? And I did get another they get conviction, but it was the the the kind of the way it was dealt with was certainly uncomfortable. Like, I didn't it wasn't it wasn't a fair level of treatment. And then if I say, I've got a friend of mine, a graffiti friend. He he served a very long sentence for, say, a more serious crime.
Nathan Murdoch:And he he's one of the most interesting people I know. So he's addicted to danger is is his words. So, like like, he he does live a little bit on the thin side of the law, like dicks in and out, but crazy intelligent. But he he did it I think he did 7 or 8 years in his longest stretch. But he he told me about his time in jail and rehabilitation and how he felt he, you know, he he educated reeducated himself in there and has come out the other side very well, but he said, like, he had a lot to say about rehabilitation and how how he think the system failed.
Nathan Murdoch:You know, he the way he got through it is because of his own will and intelligence. Whereas he said that, you know, the thing that always got interested, he said, if you go into jail young he said time's slower in jail. So he said if someone goes into jail young, in your early twenties, he said, like, you don't you don't mature at the same speed as you do in the real world. So if you go in at 20 and come out at 30, you've not got the age of 30. You're still close to that age.
Nathan Murdoch:And he and he said, like, the system the system isn't greatly doesn't support you very well. And, you know, I I do have a lot of friends who have had jail experiences. And even the only time I've had a positive experience with the police is through work, to be honest. And that's like doing this as a job. I've got a lot of I know, you know, the the police I engage with now when I'm working and stuff, everyone's positive.
Nathan Murdoch:But when I've been on the wrong side of the law, I feel like, you know, it's always slightly in aggressive or in intimidating stance, which I kind of understand in some ways. But then, you know, maybe I don't know. My only positive experiences with the police are through work. And, you know, and that's being perfectly honest. Even there's been a couple of times in my life where in recent times, where I feel I've needed support and I've not I've not got it, to be honest.
Nathan Murdoch:I feel like things have to escalate further to get the support that I needed. And then I think of other people in my situation, and it's just like yeah. It's it's difficult, and that's Is it
Benn Baker-Pollard:It's interesting because, Gary, well, everybody knows that I have a passion for helping or an interest in helping youth, and I really love trying to divert people away from getting into trouble. So, you know, of what I was expecting it to be is that you hadn't had that positive experience and you hadn't had the support. But, hopefully, as things go forward, that will change. But it is it's a slow burn, I think. But if you were gonna talk to that group of youth nowadays that were in your age group when you started to get into that zone, what would be your piece of advice to try and help divert them?
Nathan Murdoch:Yeah. We I I actually I had a conversation with a young person that was already on a on a very on a on a path to jail kind of thing. And I e even with everything I've done and being a lot closer to his age than other people who are there at the time, I really found he didn't engage with me well, which surprised me. Like yeah, he, like, I sort of took with it was me and someone else. It was sort of he was he weren't even 20 at the time, and I would have been this would have been a couple of years ago.
Nathan Murdoch:But I I remember because it it was quite close to us. But he was he was on the verge of pending or he had pending serious charges, and he weren't even 20 people, we're allowed. But it just amazed me, like, out of everything we said to him, I was like, I kind of felt like he listened, but I don't feel he didn't engage the way I expected, which really made me think a lot more about what what could I have done different. Like, how how how you know, and I always see because because I come from a graffiti background and, you know, now I can paint pictures. I would feel like, oh, that's an easy way in to help to help use because I do something which is which is seen as cool.
Nathan Murdoch:But then my my experiences I've had, it's it's surprised myself how how difficult it it's been to get engagement. I find it real mixed, real mixed. You know, we do a lot of work with youth groups. Some I met I met 1 lad, and he he you know, at the at the time at the time, I had a reasonably nice looking BMW. And he and he he see he attached to that.
Nathan Murdoch:He's like, oh, how did you get the cut? And we went through his whole life. And that, like, he said that inspired him because I had something nice that looked nice. Like, he he wanted to, like, I wanna change something so I can own something like that. But, yeah, so the other the other kids, I say them particular incidents that we would just sat around the table trying to engage him that way, like, I really struggled.
Nathan Murdoch:I really didn't I didn't feel he was buying into what we were saying. I just feel as soon as I walk away, like like, if this is he's just gonna do whatever he wants again. And I was just like, 2 different instances. But, yeah, the the other one, they've had something to show. He see it in a different way.
Nathan Murdoch:You know? I don't know. It it is it's I'm re I'm really not sure. Because I say from them 2 experiences, it's it's, yeah. I don't know.
Nathan Murdoch:At at that age, I didn't have the maturity that I have now to I don't even think I could I I would probably make the right analytical decision. I only think that it goes back to they need to experience tragedy. You know? You need you need to see loss up close and personal. You need to see, oh, just just sadness.
Nathan Murdoch:You need to experience something sad to make you analyze what your next move is. And and I and I don't I don't like to think that that's that is the way forward, but sadness, you know, sadness and tragedy shaped my opinion.
Gary Johannes:It's in it's interesting is you you come back to that point.
Nathan Murdoch:Mhmm.
Gary Johannes:But what I'm hearing is you took responsibility because of that tragedy, where the people who aren't engaging aren't taking responsibility. They're too too immature. They're not making an analytical choice. Yeah. So they don't see their role in their change.
Nathan Murdoch:Yes.
Gary Johannes:Where you went at one point, actually, I I've I've gotta take responsibility for the change.
Nathan Murdoch:Yeah.
Chris Johannes:I think as well, Nathan, I think you're a little bit hard on yourself. I think working with young people, because I work with young people quite a lot, I think a lot of the time, it will feel like you're talking to yourself and you're not getting that response. But I do believe that those words still tick over in their minds for
Nathan Murdoch:a long
Chris Johannes:time afterwards, and they'll come back to them when it suits them. When their life hits that moment, those words will still come back to them even though they may have responded there and then. I think I do believe that that is something that will have made an impact. Yeah. I think you'll see it.
Nathan Murdoch:Yeah. I I guess I think I think you're right there. There's a lot of things I've heard from different people in my life. Like, yeah, I remember them at different they they come relevant at different times. You know?
Nathan Murdoch:So so yeah. Yeah. Maybe maybe you're right. Maybe I was expecting too much in a in a in a very short encounter.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. So so to finish off, because we we've been going quite a long time now. So when I spoke to you before, you said you're doing some stuff where you're giving back, really. You're you're supporting people using your art. How does that work?
Gary Johannes:What's going on there? Just tell us what you do outside of the paid work.
Nathan Murdoch:Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So, it was one of the the the the second time I went viral with IST. This was where this realization come to me.
Nathan Murdoch:I sort of got an early sign of it from the Keith Flintmueller I did. So Keith Flintmueller had people message me, like, to tell me that they had an emotional connection. This is from all over the world to sum up that I paint in on the wall.
Gary Johannes:Can you just describe what that was? Because the rest of the guys don't know what you're on about.
Nathan Murdoch:So so the so the first the first, first time I went globally viral, I painted a Keith Flynn phonemology mural, 12 foot high in the middle of Peterborough. Did 2 and a half 1000000 views around the world in 48 hours. Like like, globally, like, traction and believable. But I had people message from from all over the place, but it's like real emotional deep messages connecting to this this this thing I'd put on the wall, which I get the subject was. But it was just like they were really deeply connected to this wall and then felt a connection to me.
Nathan Murdoch:And And at the time, I didn't fully understand it until I later painted an anti racism painting in November 2019. It went globally viral in June, July 2020. So 7 months after 7, 8 months after I painted it when Ice Teeth tweeted it. And, everyone was like, oh, you've done this painting for Black Lives Matter. I was like, I did that painting 7 or 8 months ago because I don't believe in racism.
Nathan Murdoch:And then and then it so, like, people couldn't couldn't believe that this painting was old, but I got I got stopped in the street by by, I don't know what nationality it would have been, But like a non not like a he was a mixed race guy. But like he stopped me. Possibly a Muslim guy and he said, he was like, thank you. Thank you for making my area beautiful. And he hugged me and, like like, it was just like in this emotional moment.
Nathan Murdoch:But he was, like, so appreciative that I took time to to put someone in his area that that had a positive agenda. And, you know, from then, it really got me thinking, like, people from poor backgrounds don't have access to art. You know? If you ain't got a lot of money, you're not gonna pay to go see an art gallery. You're not gonna pay to see an art show.
Nathan Murdoch:So it really got me thinking. It's like, I wanna create art that helps people. But I wanna bring art to where places where people don't get to see it every day, but makes them feel good when they get up in their day. You know? And I've done a number since then.
Nathan Murdoch:You know? Like, I've had conversations with prostitutes to severe drug addicts about a hitch on a wall. You know, another painting I did, in in a kind of prostitute area to Peterborough. I was I was painting this painting this prostitute lady. Very didn't look very healthy at all.
Nathan Murdoch:She had had no no realistic conversation at all. She was like to me, oh, you painted that. And, like like, we had this whole conversation about this painting because I like she couldn't believe it had been done. But I always say to people, it's just like, that that picture on the wall provoked a conversation with 2 strangers, different walks of life, you know, and and it created a positive conversation. And I always think, like, you know, that maybe that changed her next step, her next path.
Nathan Murdoch:Maybe it did something. She took something away from it, and I've had them conversations multiple, multiple times that was from from them points. It's like, I wanna paint I wanna paint artwork that that can help inspire, particularly people, who probably don't have access to art in their everyday life. So and, yeah, it it's become part of my journey in what I do.
Gary Johannes:Are you doing some classes or something like that as well?
Nathan Murdoch:We do at the moment, we only do sort of classes where we're hired to do.
Gary Johannes:Right.
Nathan Murdoch:You I can't say this. Yeah. I've I've I've potentially got a premises, like, which we've never had before. And, like, we're just in the we're just trying to work out, is it right for us? But if if this all works out, we will potentially be doing more sort of offering more sort of classes to learn about the art form and stuff.
Nathan Murdoch:And we're talking about opening it up, not only to young people, but, you know, maybe people like yourselves who just think, I never did that as a kid. I wanna have a have a give it a go and just sort of, but, yeah, like
Gary Johannes:So you're trying to encourage me to go and write my name on the wall on the wall then?
Nathan Murdoch:Not not not where you shouldn't.
Gary Johannes:Okay.
Nathan Murdoch:But but yeah. Just just like, yeah, people to explore the art form and, you know, I think a lot a lot of it is misunderstood, and I will be naturally defensive about what it is and Yeah. Yeah. The mindless fandom thing is is you know, that that is not a true statement at all. Like Yeah.
Nathan Murdoch:Some very interesting and clever people. It's, yeah. All different reasons and stuff. So
Gary Johannes:Okay. So last question. If you could paint anything, anywhere, what would it be, and where would it be? Legal.
Nathan Murdoch:That's a good question. I don't know. I tell you, my 2 of my best experiences he kind of answered it. 2 of my best experiences from from being involved in this culture. I've painted in 2 deserts.
Nathan Murdoch:I've painted in I've painted in Saudi Arabia and I've painted in Dubai. And they're both, like, once in a lifetime experiences. Like, I don't know what I'd paint, but I'd love to go back to another desert or somewhere, like, really unusual like that. You know, that one of them I can't talk about. And then but I say, yeah.
Nathan Murdoch:Yeah. Like, you know, like, this this time last year, I was in Dubai. I camped in the desert. I watched the sunrise. You know?
Nathan Murdoch:It's just dude, it was just yeah. It was a it was a crazy experience, which I'll forever remember. And I always think, like, yeah. I'd I'd love to to see where else this culture, this thing that got me once in trouble, where else it could take me.
Gary Johannes:That's that's amazing. So to finish off, tell us or tell everyone listening how they can view your stuff, find out more about you, connect with you, Facebook, social media, whatever you do. So just promote a few seconds, you know, minutes promoting yourself, tell everybody how they can get a hold of NICE.
Nathan Murdoch:So, yeah, the the best the best place to find me at the moment is, my Facebook page. If you search Nathan Nyces, n y c e s, Murdoch, you'll find me on there. And that's my biggest following. I've got, I don't know, 15 a half 1000 followers at the moment on that page. So I have 2 I have 2 pages on all on, generally, on all platforms.
Nathan Murdoch:So NICE is is more it's about me and my personal journey. So content's slightly different. And then my business is called Street Arts High Limited. So again, on it's on all platforms. And our Facebook got about 9,000 followers there.
Nathan Murdoch:But that's more here's what we painted today. Sometimes it's by me. Sometimes it's by my team. Sometimes it's by all of us. But, yeah, so one's more personal account on my life and and the things I encounter, and the other one's sort of the new products and and, just imagery that we paint in different places.
Nathan Murdoch:So I say, yeah, Facebook's just ended up being our biggest following. So we do we do most most of what I'm doing is across them 2 pages. But yeah. And then but eventually, as as things build, we I yeah. We use all platforms.
Nathan Murdoch:But, yeah, Facebook, if you search Nathan Nysys Murdoch or Street Arts Higher, you'll find some way to me. And, if you wanna deep dive a bit further, if you Google my name, there's there seems to be pages about my life now for all different stories, which is which is surreal. But, yeah, like like Yeah. There's there's all sorts of stuff on there that you won't find because, yeah, there's there's stories spanning back years of different things I've done, and, you know, yeah. I've I've I've had some big stories that covered large places and stuff like that.
Nathan Murdoch:So yeah.
Gary Johannes:Well, it's massive thank you for me. It's been really, really enjoyable listening to the, you know, the trials and tribulations of how you've managed to be so successful, and, long may it continue.
Nathan Murdoch:No. Thank you.
Gary Johannes:Guys? Yeah.
Chris Johannes:Thanks very much, Nathan. It's been a pleasure. Really enjoyed talking to you today.
Peter Ely:It's been absolutely wonderful listening to your journey, and I don't know if everybody else has noticed it, but some of the things that you've been saying are really solution focused in a way that you've lived your life. So it's been a genuine pleasure listening to you. It's kind of helped me and inspired me to know that solution focused and being solution focused works. Well done, Wayne.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks very much, Nathan. It's been a pleasure to meet you, and I will say, I'm sure I'll speak for everyone on this call. If you ever need that person to talk to, if it is like a Tuesday, come and, by all means, pick up the phone to one of us, and we'll happily be that person to talk to you or maybe just explain a bit more about the brain and why these things do happen sometimes out of nowhere.
Nathan Murdoch:Yep. No problem.
Gary Johannes:Thank you. Absolutely.
Nathan Murdoch:If you
Benn Baker-Pollard:could give Gary's car a makeover, Nathan, at some point, that'd be good.
Nathan Murdoch:I mean the middle of
Benn Baker-Pollard:the night while he's asleep, he's fine.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. Yeah. You hate yourself. But he knows where I live as well.
Nathan Murdoch:Stop it. It's a good time.
Gary Johannes:Thank you for listening to our podcast that proves men do talk.
Benn Baker-Pollard:If you would like more information or support, then please visit inspired to change dot biz.
Peter Ely:Where you can learn more about us and the Inspire to Change team.
Chris Johannes:And remember, the conversation continues on our social media, Inspire Mentor.
