Tackling Body Image and Men's Mental Health: Insights and Tips | Inspired Men Talk
Welcome to Inspired Men Talk. Four solution focused therapists born in four different decades who openly and honestly discuss their perspectives on the issues surrounding men's mental health and the things that stigma says we don't talk about.
Gary Johannes:Hello, and welcome to this episode of Inspired Men Talk. And it's a really interesting subject, which we only just came up with because we're all sitting here. It's a lovely day in mid May in all in different parts of the country, but I think we've all got good weather. We'll let everybody tell us what their weather's like. Just as it's nice to know talk about the weather.
Gary Johannes:We're very British, of course. But, actually, it's a time when we start shedding our clothes a little bit and start showing off a little bit more of our bodies. And it's occurred to me listening to people and looking about is that we're now much more body conscious. Men are more body conscious than ever before, and I think the whole population are more body conscious. So we're gonna talk about that, but we might actually be able to talk because we're all heavily involved in how the brain works and the the whole understanding of of what we need to do to be better at things, but actually also around our mood and our ability and taking things on.
Gary Johannes:So we're gonna talk about how we feel about our bodies, maybe, and what the pressures now are and how we move forward with that, and how we can maybe give you some really good tips to start getting feeling better and be more motivated and be more productive because that's certainly what I am linking this to in my life. So with with talking for me, let me introduce everybody. Let everybody come on, say hello. And this is where you get the opportunity to talk about this subject. Or do you want me to leave talking about me, which is always what you you guys accuse me of.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Oh, yeah.
Gary Johannes:Well, come on, you guys. Speak up. You're leaving me hanging here.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Well, you like to talk so much, Gary?
Gary Johannes:I'm trying to be less talkative. You just don't say enough, so I have to fill the gaps in.
Benn Baker-Pollard:So what you come on then. You're talking about body image. What is it?
Gary Johannes:I I I Curtis. So I'm again, one of the lovely things about this group, and it was commented on last week when we had a guest on about it's great to have four guys all from different walks of life, all from different age groups. And it's funny because all my life, body image has been there a bit, but it's never been a driver for me. And I didn't think people of my age are driven by body image as much as younger people now. I think it's much more important.
Gary Johannes:And there's a difference for me between health, and well-being, and I've gotta look the part. Now, you know, I guess men have traditionally not bothered by that so much. And I think we've also had a much more physical work life historically than we do now, and that all impacts on it. But we also you know, with the work we do, we also know the impact of of when you're suffering with a mental health condition, how one of the things what quickly goes out the window is that self care, and that includes looking after yourself and eating well and moving well and things like that. And then you get depressed over looking at yourself in the mirror, and that just adds weight to that low mood.
Gary Johannes:So that's where I'm coming from today. You know? How many people I see, how many people I know who are unhappy with what they are, but they don't know how to get out of it. But, actually, how many people now are comparing themselves to the ideal even though I I don't think that's ever been defined what the ideal is. So how do you guys feel about that?
Benn Baker-Pollard:I think that's kind of magnified particularly more for in this presentation that you have to have your six pack or slim body or and be the magazine model physique, I suppose, that would have been the back in the day when it you know, your day with just sort of newspaper print and telegrams in the post kind of era. You know? But now it's a lot easier on the social media front where everyone is scrolling on Instagram and and, you know, it's the perfect body image.
Gary Johannes:You missed the most important imagery, which was catalogs. Yeah. So, you know, if I wanted to get a look at what I should look like both with fashion and body type, I would look at a man in a woolen jumper and go and a velvet jacket and go, wow. That's style.
Benn Baker-Pollard:That's why you wear them, is it?
Gary Johannes:Well, I I I can't fit in my the ones I have, I can't fit into.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I think it's a bigger problem nowadays. I think it you know, society definitely moved into that era that well, most people anyway have that body conscious sort of level where you've got to be that magazine spread kinda image where it's perfect in all the bumps and curves of exactly where they need to be. If you're a guy, you've gotta have your six pack and go to the gym and look the part. And for the girls, you know, it's the same. Be slim.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Normally, goes along the lines of big boobs and nice bum. And if you haven't got that tough, you're you're not part of it anymore. You're not worthy of it.
Peter Ely:I think the you're right, Ben, a %. But I think the thing that that kind of bothers me is that you see a lot of these posts now with Instagram, and you can use filters. And you get a lot of people who don't actually fit those ideals, and yet they put filters on their pictures to make them look that way. And then other people see that and think that that's the ideal, and then and then try and don't realize that it's filters Don't realize that people are being deceptive in the imagery that they're showing. And I think that's a shocker because that's really impacting on on the mental health of of younger people.
Peter Ely:And I see that with some of my some of my younger cousins where they kind of have these ideals that they're they think they're supposed to live up to, and it has negative impacts on their lives.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And it's like Botox, isn't it, as well, or or lip lip fillers. Everyone walks around looking like a bloody goldfish. It's fucking ridiculous. But, yeah, it's it's the latest trend, and you see it, and they can barely speak. They look like some sort of sex doll that's fucking walking around on legs.
Gary Johannes:Oh, but that's a lot of the ladies. But how does this affect you know, I I don't know any men who have had any fillers. Maybe maybe I don't know yet. I haven't noticed it, but maybe some of the men are getting some Botox.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Absolutely. They are.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. Are they? So I don't know. I don't know.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I've got loads of people I know, friends wise, who are deaf heavily into the Botox. They have their appointments booked in every so many weeks just as soon as that wrinkle starts moving. Yeah. Oh, god. Yeah.
Gary Johannes:So so so straight away and then maybe it's because I'm of that generation where I it's it's something it's a bit like sort of, you know, rap music. It's beyond me because, you know but then I like punk or I like ACDC and things like that, which was beyond my parents. So I don't see it because I I just don't expect it. So there's you know, I don't notice it.
Gary Johannes:But your
Benn Baker-Pollard:whiten teeth as well. You know?
Gary Johannes:Well, yeah. Teeth whitening, but then even I've considered that. Christopher, where where do you come in from this? Because you're a different generation.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. And, you know, I mean, Ben's absolutely right. The men are doing this just as much as women are. You know? You're getting Botox.
Chris Johannes:You're getting I mean, you can even get pec implants now. This is a big thing. And it's not it's not only the stuff people are putting into their bodies. There's also the fact of people are perhaps not eating in the way they should. So people are getting eating disorders just to try and make sure they lose weight.
Chris Johannes:I mean, fasting's a big thing now. We were talking about that just before the podcast. Fasting is a big thing now, but it's being able to do that responsibly. And these negative body images that I think are being pushed out to us constantly are affected by and are making people do that. You know, one of the big things I like to say is I quite like rocking my dad bod, you know, because dad bod has become something that's actually acceptable.
Chris Johannes:But is it, or is it just a underhanded way of being able to get say things like that? I mean, some people say they like the dad bod and things like that. So it's it's interesting. You know? But I I'll take that.
Gary Johannes:It it fits because I I have heard about the muscle implants, particularly pecs, and that started off with you might have an injury and so you put that in, but now people are getting it done. But it's like, I know people who are young younger your sort of age group, Christopher, who are taking laxatives, say, on a regular basis so they can eat what they want, but they don't hold on to so much. But it's interesting. If you go back twenty or thirty years, possibly a lot less than that, but I can't give you a specific timing, only women got eating disorders. If you went to the doctors because you weren't eating appropriately, they would never be able to diagnose you.
Gary Johannes:It's all medical fact almost that only women could get an eating disorder. And that's fact. And now we know a huge percentage of the male population now, but, you know, or people getting into sort of a huge amount of men who would have gone underneath it. So maybe there's a level of that being there all the time. But I go back to when I was 20, 18.
Gary Johannes:I was in the forces. So I was a man in uniform, and, apparently, now I look at myself and go, wow. I wish I still look like that. But when I put a uniform on, when I put a best my best suit on, I still feel like a sack of shit because I'm not I I've not got a body built to look smart. I could put the smartest clothes on and in the world, and somebody stood next to me will be dressed in like he's just bought it all from a secondhand shop and nothing's fitting, and he'll look smarter than me.
Gary Johannes:If he's got that because he's got the body type. The and I'm like, nothing I could do would accept surgery would actually change my body type. I'm naturally not tall, dark, and handsome.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I'm gonna challenge you on that slightly, Gary, and I I'm gonna say that comes down to your mindset.
Gary Johannes:No. Absolutely.
Benn Baker-Pollard:If you wear your clothes with the right attitude and the right demeanor, you can pull off whatever you choose to pull off. I could put the fittest person going in a suit, and they could still look like a sack of shit. Because if they haven't got the right attitude to match it, they don't pull it off.
Gary Johannes:Absolutely. It there's so much of that. But e what I'm saying that even forty years ago when I was in the forces, when I was in the air force, I'd put my best uniform on, and we'd be on parade all the and there will be people who look smarter than me. And I'd put every ounce of everything in, but their body type was naturally fitting. So but it was still a comparison because I had a I I in my younger years, and I know that now and I didn't know that then, I had massively low self esteem.
Gary Johannes:So any comparison, I saw negatively. It I now look at pictures of me when I was 18. I think, Jesus, I look really good. I'm smart and everything else what you think of. But at the time, when I compared myself mostly to someone like my elder brother and things like that, who was like a built like a racing snake, and I always had a round body in comparison.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Do you think your dad looks smart when he puts his best suit on, Chris, and he gets himself dressed up?
Chris Johannes:I will move on from that. So
Gary Johannes:See what I'm saying? I don't get any I don't get any help. No support.
Chris Johannes:No. Nowadays, I think he he holds that confidence. He holds that presence. I've always seen seen him as a larger than life character. And you guys know him, I'm sure you'll say the same.
Chris Johannes:You know, he holds that presence now. The stuff he's saying is something that obviously was way before my time. But I think we're all guilty of that. I think everybody I I don't care who you are. Everybody has compared themselves to other people, and everybody has felt themselves inadequate whether a big bit or a small bit or everybody has felt that time where they're not happy with the way they look or the shape of their body or the fact that they're not fit enough.
Chris Johannes:I'd love to be built and muscly like some of the celebrities that you see. Not willing to put the work in for it, so therefore, I'm not gonna let it bother me. Everybody has that ideal image of themselves that you're not achieving. Even the people that are built at muscly, they're still trying to get better. They're still trying to aim for a better version of themselves.
Chris Johannes:Otherwise, they would stop going to the gym. You know? Everybody would happily say that there is things they change about themselves. And, you know, and that doesn't mean you're uncomfortable with your body. Doesn't mean you're you're suffering because of it.
Gary Johannes:But what if you are?
Benn Baker-Pollard:But I
Chris Johannes:think there are some people that do suffer, and what we know there are. We know that I mean, I was looking at some statistics that at least one in ten men have had suicidal thoughts just down to their body image, just down to the self esteem and their and their body body image. One in ten. You know? And and I'm sure that number is probably higher if that looks deeper because I know lots of people that would say that they've had their moments.
Gary Johannes:Do you think the things like plastic surgery and things like that, which I didn't realize that the the scope of the amount of people having Botox, Do you think the organization selling that are actually preying on the vulnerable, Peter?
Peter Ely:So I was talking to someone it's a great question. Because I was talking to someone recently who's just qualified in in some of these plastic surgeries as we refer to them, and she was talking about it as aesthetics.
Gary Johannes:Yes. That's what it's called.
Peter Ely:Yeah. And I think it that was the thing that really struck me was that they've changed the way that it's phrased because it used to be certainly when I was was, like, was younger and probably when you were younger, Gary, it was plastic surgery. But it's turned into aesthetics, which I think is trying to put this positive spin on changing the way you look. And and that for me is an instant negative because it's almost like we're gonna weaken all the reasons why you're doing it, and we're just gonna say, we'll do it. Change change the way you look.
Peter Ely:But that doesn't necessarily make you happier.
Gary Johannes:But does it I'm gonna say. So I I go back probably thirty years, and a friend of ours, lady, of us, she had on the NHS breast augmentation, a boob job. And she had zero boobs. And I know another friend who had one normal sized boob and one flat. So she had surgery to because it really affected their mental health.
Gary Johannes:And in their opinion, it did, and the NHS felt that. And it gave them a massive confidence boost afterwards.
Peter Ely:Those those, yeah, those kind of things I can say, you know, yes. I can understand why someone would want to do that if you're if you're lopsided as it were or if you if you're you've got that. But, I mean, we were talking about people. I mean, you look at Leslie Ash, for example, and she went off and had the lip implants. And that went, well, as far as I was concerned, yeah, really badly wrong.
Gary Johannes:She
Gary Johannes:She still walks with a limp and everything because of the stuff she caught because of being in that surgery.
Peter Ely:From that perspective, it's kind of like, there's not actually anything wrong. It's your perception that's wrong, or your perception is that it's hurting you. And and then it reminded me of one of these good morning shows this morning with Richard Madeley. And they had they had a young, like, 18 year old girl and an 18 year old boy on it. And by all standards, you would look at them and say that both of them were very good looking kids.
Peter Ely:But they had this body image issue where they felt that they didn't. And, unfortunately, they met Richard Madeley, and he didn't really help with it because all he kept doing was going, but you look really good. You know? Alan Partridge, you did himself up. And it for those people, when you're in that position, this is where I think you should be encouraged to look at other options before you go down the surgical route.
Benn Baker-Pollard:When you say other options, what do you mean?
Peter Ely:Well, I think, you know, potentially, if if you're sitting there and there's no like, to to all intents and purposes, there's no rational reason as to why you want this change, then potentially you need to talk to someone about why you feel this way, why you're feeling negative, what's going on within in your life that's making you feel you're not worthy or you're not suitable or you don't look right, if you will.
Gary Johannes:I've never felt like I've looked right. I could always be more. You know? And now it's you know, I'm not well, it's too late now. So it is but I I always had a little bit of a hang up on that, and that probably stopped me being all I could be in early in early years.
Gary Johannes:But saying that, I had everything I wanted as well. Somebody yesterday on the course I was delivering hypnotherapy training yesterday to a course in Kent, and and somebody said, oh, you know, this I said, my life's perfect. And they said, oh, you know, nobody's, like, perfect. And I'm like, I've been married for forty odd years. I've got a job.
Gary Johannes:I don't feel like I've been to work for thirteen years. I've got amazing children. I got everything I want. There's nothing nothing I actually now seek. Everything's there.
Gary Johannes:I've got what I want. And though I'm not finished stretching because you always want to go and and find more in some way, but I don't need more. I choose to find more. And it's just like, wow. You know?
Gary Johannes:I've got some of the best friends I've ever had in my life. Not you lot, but I've had some notes.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I was waiting for it.
Gary Johannes:I've got some good friends. And bad things still happen. You know? I I think about this morning. I put four tires on my car last week, and it cost me a thousand pound because I got a nice car.
Gary Johannes:And then this week, on Friday, actually, I got a letter for the post and says, right, finances, obviously, PPs, whatever it is called, PCP, and I've got an out fine of thousands of pounds to pay off the deficit. And it's not I've just bought a thousand pounds. I can't so I can trade the car in and just move on, but it's like, I've just spent nearly £2,000 with the service and everything. And it's like, what bad timing? Because I've now paid for it.
Gary Johannes:So so now I need to work out how
Chris Johannes:Refinance it. Keep it.
Gary Johannes:That's it. So it's like thinking about what do you do next? So stuff still happens, but I still got a perfect life.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I think that comes back to that saying, doesn't it? You have to find your happiness before you find your success.
Gary Johannes:But I'm still not happy with my body. But what I'm I don't know where will that come from, but you're talking about surgery and things like that and why people are doing this. And Christopher said something earlier about he would love to have Spartacus' body, but he's not willing to do the work Spartacus did to get it. But if he just goes to Turkey, it can come back after a two week holiday looking like Spartacus. Is that true?
Chris Johannes:Yeah. That's very true. And, you know, it's
Gary Johannes:it's a bit of a headache now, isn't it? Is that a quick is that Yeah.
Chris Johannes:It's a bit of a joke now, isn't it? But you go to Turkey, come back
Gary Johannes:with bleached white teeth and a full head of hair, you know, and the fat sucked
Chris Johannes:out of you. Totally. You know? And and, actually, yeah, you're right. Because even me and and then I'm in a good place with myself.
Chris Johannes:I've like you say, I've got a partner. I don't I'm not unhappy with my life. But, actually, there's some of that part of that that sounds quite appealing. Actually, to just be able to go and say, well, I've got four grand. I was gonna spend it making myself look really good.
Gary Johannes:What about if I can give you a credit card before grand op? And you can either improve everything, you know, you know, buy all the appropriate stuff, or you can go, oh, I can go and get some white teeth.
Chris Johannes:Well, the thing is, I think I would sit down and have a conversation with myself and actually go, yes. It's appealing, but I'm not gonna go and do it.
Gary Johannes:But nearly everybody is of that age group, and this is what you've been saying. Yeah. And and I was talking to someone who works in Harley Street, somebody who who have who's also a therapist, the same as us, but one of the things they they they work in a clinic in Harley Street where they do aesthetics. But most of their clients come from abroad, and they fly in, a bit like Turkey, to have these procedures because they can't get them in their country, and it's, sort of like well, you know, against maybe a lot of the cultural's expectations. They fly and get it done, and they fly home.
Gary Johannes:They need immediately said they don't want to work for anything. They don't want to run 10 miles a day. They don't wanna go to the gym and wait every day. They can just go fix me.
Benn Baker-Pollard:No. Society, though, isn't it? What we've created in the human race by having that ability to do things like tech produce technology. So that everything comes at our fingertips all the time. I don't have to go anywhere to order my shopping.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I don't have to go anywhere to buy something that I really, really want. I can get it delivered to my door. For when I go on a diet and take diet pills, I can order them online. I don't feel even go to the pharmacy anymore or see a doctor. I can just type on a form.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I can lie on that form and say, my BMI is x. I'm seriously obese and overweight, and I need this drug. And and it all comes to me, and I think that's why we've got this situation.
Gary Johannes:But saying that, I wouldn't be lying. I am obese. Probably, seriously obese if you're looking at the BMI scale. But the easy thing to do is actually get moving, and that would improve lots of evidence. Or I can just go, doctor, give me the stuff to make me lose weight because I'm not willing to get up and walk.
Gary Johannes:Well, I
Benn Baker-Pollard:mean, you have to be a doctor. You can go, like Claire was saying, the pharmacy on the last podcast.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. But the thing is we're all saying that these this it's come so easy. You know? It is easy to go to Turkey and get yourself all fixed up if you can afford it. It's easy to get your shopping delivered and do all of these things and just but we're talking from the perspective of, okay.
Chris Johannes:If you've got yourself in a good space and mentally, you're well and you know what you want, you know that, okay. Yeah. I can get my shopping delivered, but I need to go for a walk today. I need to go and walk the dog. Need to get that bit of exercise.
Chris Johannes:You know? We're all in that space where we have that control over that. We're not going to take the easy options and everything in life because we we're happy. We're well. We want to do things.
Chris Johannes:But these people that are trapped in that place where they genuinely hate their own body, and I'm talk saying hate their own body, you know, to the point where they either they could be hurting themselves. They could be doing all sorts of things, starving themselves, and all sorts of horrible things to themselves. What can those people actually do? Because they're not gonna feel like we do. They're not you know, they're gonna be trapped in that space where they need some answers.
Gary Johannes:So why are they hating themselves? What what would you say? I mean, that's a huge question, so I'm not expecting an exact answer. But what do you think are the things which are not helping them understand that they are who they are, and that's okay?
Chris Johannes:Oh, I mean, we as therapists, we know the answer to that. The way we talk about what happens in the brain. The science behind any form of because it's a form of depression.
Gary Johannes:Because I actually think, like Ben said and Peter said and you said, it starts with comparison. Yes. And, you know, you've all talked about social media, and I totally agree with you. But, actually, what about normal media? So for decades, they've talked about women's magazines, and they just showed a beautiful women, and they'll get you know?
Gary Johannes:I remember even ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, there was models stepping out and going, what about a plus size model, which isn't size four, basically? What about not airbrushing my pictures? I've got a spot. Leave it on, you know, shape body shaping on their imagery. But then you've got things like Love Island.
Gary Johannes:How many men, young men, are looking at Love Island? And how many older men are going, how do I compete with that? How many single older men are trying to fit into something they're not capable of because the the mass media are projecting. You can only be successful. If you look at things like Dragon's Den, you've got two totally together guys doing it.
Gary Johannes:So the only way I can be successful is, if I'm slim and look good in a suit.
Chris Johannes:But this is, again, the
Peter Ely:Theo on that as well.
Gary Johannes:No. Used to be. Alright. But but but it didn't fit the fit the the look Right. Right.
Benn Baker-Pollard:It's Steven Bartlett and who is it now, ain't it?
Gary Johannes:I think Well, you got Peter Jones and Steven Bartlett. Bartlett. Yeah. Two two main guys who is a a another chap on there. But because he's really much older than them, makes it acceptable.
Gary Johannes:He's to he's you know? It's okay. But he again, he's not terrible. But, actually, now success looks like for me, oh, you can only be successful if you look successful.
Chris Johannes:But it goes back to what I was saying. Intellectually, you know that that's not true. You may have those moments where you watch love violence. Oh, I'd love to have a body like that. But you it doesn't become something more than that.
Chris Johannes:The comparison is the first step. It's why that goes from, oh, that'd be nice if I had a body like that to to become an obsession, you know, to become in that point where you've you're having those suicidal thoughts because you don't look like that. So what changes? Why we could all compare. We all do.
Chris Johannes:So where is that stage where it's I wish I could, but I don't. So I thought, oh, well, and I can't look like that, so I hate myself. Where does where does that line fall and why?
Peter Ely:I struggle with that because I don't I've never had that. I it's it I don't know if that's just because of the age when I grew up or how I grew up or or how I was brought up. But I remember this has just reminded me of a story. When I was about 14, a dentist said to me, your teeth are discolored. We can, on the NHS, file them all down, put them into crowns, and and make them white for you.
Peter Ely:And I said to him, why? What's wrong with my teeth? And he said, there's nothing wrong with your teeth. And I said, well, why would I want to do that? Now there's part of me now that goes back and say, well, maybe I would like to have white teeth.
Peter Ely:But at that time, it was never a thing for me. And even when I was at my worst and I was over twenty stone at one point in my life, even then, I would walk past the mirror and kinda go, yeah. I look good. It was that kinda man thing. You know?
Peter Ely:So I don't I can't I can't relate to this whole I wanna be. I kinda look at myself, and I'll always find something that I like. I might get a bit of definition in an arm or Yep. You know, one of my fingers gets a bit strong. I don't know.
Peter Ely:You know? I always find that that positive thing.
Chris Johannes:I mean, that's a great way to be, Pete. But let me put it to you in a different way then.
Gary Johannes:Ben's got off Ben's got Ben's got off thinking about the exercise routine for that. Yeah.
Chris Johannes:But let me put it to you in a different way, Pete, or all Ben, whichever one of you wants to say. If you had a client that turn came to you saying that this is how they feel, what would you tell them? You're saying you don't know because of your you don't ex you haven't experienced that. But put if we put therapist head on, if if a client came to you and said, I can't get over the fact that I can't look like Dwayne Johnson. I'm getting to the point where I'm getting really dark thoughts.
Chris Johannes:What would you say to your client? How would you handle that?
Peter Ely:See, it it is a tricky one because if you wanna put the effort in, you can look like Dwayne Johnson. Right? And anyone can, but you have to be willing to put the effort in. So I
Gary Johannes:think stops the effort? I mean, that's the thing. So I do know intellectually, I know all of this. However, I'm now the heaviest I've ever been in my life. At Christmas, I got a tailor made suit.
Gary Johannes:It was a birthday present from all all the decent friends I've got. It was a
Benn Baker-Pollard:It's an option to, like, throw someone out of a meeting. Yeah.
Gary Johannes:I but but it was a gift. It was lovely. And I went down and several rows suit all made for me. I'm already a half or so heavier when I had that tailored. And it's just like, wow.
Gary Johannes:And that was what I had it made, tailored. I was at the heaviest I've ever been, and I've just got a little bit heavier. So I know intellectually all of these things. So why am I still eating more too many biscuits? Why am I not exercising at all?
Gary Johannes:I know my car's parked right outside my clinic here. And if it was on the other side of the base, I'd probably call a taxi to drive me across the road. You know? And it's just like, I know. I I've been shopping this morning.
Gary Johannes:Why didn't I park at the end so I had to walk into the supermarket rather than seeing if there's a driving round until closest space possible comes up? So we know.
Benn Baker-Pollard:But Your book is too full, Gary. That's my that's what you got going on there, mate. Maybe you should book him for some sessions.
Gary Johannes:I don't I don't know any any good enough therapist who could who could handle who could handle me. That's the problem.
Gary Johannes:Do you
Chris Johannes:know that's one of the biggest excuses I hear from people, actually. When you say when they talk to you about the problems, you know, hypnotherapy really help you. Oh, my problems are way too big. You won't know what to do with them. One of the biggest things I hear people saying is the biggest bullshit I've got going.
Chris Johannes:You know?
Gary Johannes:You're you're right. And we do hear that now again, but I think we do have people come in. But, actually, you're absolutely right. So what all of that is the culmination of everything else.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And not only that, is it? You know? Your book is full, but, also, you're now putting your body under stress. Yes. So your fat cells are now screaming, but no one's listening.
Gary Johannes:The the biggest issue I've got is I took a dog for a walk this morning, which I try and do, but mostly I don't because it's like, oh, I've got something else to do or think. But I know because I'm a little bit heavy, my knees were late the time I finished and this sort of so then I can't because I'm getting overweight, so it's like that sort of catch 22 situation. So it's like, how do we break this? And I'm in a good place. I am.
Gary Johannes:I've got a you know, I'm absolutely happy, but my health now has been damaged. I don't know the right word. Impeded or something purely because I've not got a good healthy lifestyle. And I don't mean going to the gym because, you know, I've never I'm not a gym goer. I'm I'm not built for running at all.
Gary Johannes:It's not that thing. I've never been a runner. But there's, like, there's a hundred activities. Why am I not doing them? Or how do I get to do activities, Christopher?
Chris Johannes:So I've got an actually really good question for everybody. Is there a place for a little bit of shame? Because maybe you're just so so willing to be fat and unfit because you don't care what you look like anymore because you're, you know, you're happy in yourself. It doesn't matter if you got a forty inch waist or a fifty inch waist or whatever. It doesn't matter to you anymore.
Chris Johannes:So is it important to have a bit of maybe maybe we do need that level of, well, actually, no. I want to look like this. You know? Maybe that's the motivation you need. You need that motivation of where that line is.
Chris Johannes:You can't if you're too comfortable, then
Gary Johannes:you need to be like, you
Chris Johannes:know, fat shaming. I think Pierce Morgan used to talk about it a lot. Fat shaming is good for you because it encourages you to actually get off your ass and do something.
Gary Johannes:Peter.
Peter Ely:I I so in answer to that, I can relate to that. What what triggered for me and it and it wasn't anybody else shaming me. It was myself. I went to buy some trousers at, like, a high street shop, and the highest the largest trousers that they had were, like, a 40 waist, and I couldn't fit into them. And I realized that things were wrong, and I needed to make a change.
Peter Ely:So I agree that potentially there is a a place for it, but when it's you yourself identifying it, not other people. I don't agree with other people fat shaming people.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. But if my partner came to me and said, you you know, you are getting a bit fat, mate, or, you know, you are you know, maybe you need to start thinking about dropping a bit. Not because of any other reason that they care, not because they like, oh god. Look at you. But, you know, if it's somebody close to you, I think it's okay as well.
Benn Baker-Pollard:With what Pete said, I was gonna go to a funeral a few months ago, and it was wear bright colored clothes and all the rest of it. And Yeah. I took out my suit that I've always looked pretty damn good in, and it was my wedding suit. And I put it on, and could I get the buttons to close? Could I get it around my stomach?
Benn Baker-Pollard:Not a cat in hell chance. And that was a point where for me, I was like, shit. I really need to sort this out.
Gary Johannes:Interesting. The reason I took the dog for a walk walk this morning and over the last seven days, I've actually changed my diet completely, is last Friday or the Friday before, whatever it was, tongue whips by, I sat in the office in the afternoon, and I was knackered. I haven't done anything. And my productivity had like, it was fell off. But, actually, I've got some really nice designer shirts, and they're all XXL.
Gary Johannes:And I put one on. Couldn't do it up. I I had to wear a jumper over the top to show because otherwise, you you just see gaps between all the buttons. And this is excess okay. It's designer, so it's so it's a slimmer fit.
Gary Johannes:So in real life, it's probably an XL. Yeah. But that's never happened. And, actually, that that was that personal going. I've got a chain.
Gary Johannes:I've got to chain. It was an awakening call. But if I hadn't have that fairly empty bucket more than life just going on, if I'd been in a bad place, that would have been something else to beat me up with myself. And that's the difference. You've all talked about trying something on and it not fitting.
Gary Johannes:But, actually, what if you're not in a space to cope with just going, oh, I failed again? How do we start changing that? What small things? Because we we you know, I think we all understand that nobody can lose five stone overnight, two stone, even a even a couple of few pounds overnight. But most people rather than try to compare themselves mostly because we all compare.
Gary Johannes:It's a human nature thing, but a proper comparison generally happens when we see in ourselves as not good enough, not worthy enough, not capable. So we're in a bad place. Mental health has taken a real big hit for us at that point. So we only notice negatives, and we don't see solutions. What's more thing can, you know, you come up with tips of how people can take who are not doing anything, and everything seems too big because the comparison from here to here is too big.
Gary Johannes:What tips can you give, Peter?
Peter Ely:So I think one of the one of the things that helped me go from that being that person that couldn't get into a size forty inch trousers, and I now wear thirty fours, and my 30 are loose, was a couple. One, I kept this pair of jeans that I really loved and that I looked good in, and they were a goal for me. And I hung them up where I could see them at the front of my wardrobe. And every sort of six months, I'd try and and see how far I was progressing. So when I made a comparison, I didn't compare myself to other people.
Peter Ely:I compared myself to me six months before. And I think that helped me to keep going forward to see the progress that I was making. But before that, obviously, it was to start by doing something small. So, you know, you start you say walk the dog. You know?
Peter Ely:It might be climb some stairs instead of the lift. You know, get out get out one floor early on the lift and walk up some stairs to start with. You know, do something small that can help you with help you build your momentum is kinda my tip and have a goal.
Chris Johannes:Yeah. As soon as
Benn Baker-Pollard:what Pete's saying, I think, you know, one of the most important things that we talk about is what's been good and writing it down each day. And no matter how panche your day's been, it's about focusing on the small wins as much as the big wins. So if that day and you're really struggling, you got up and made yourself a cup of coffee and had a shower, that's sure what's been good. Write it down. Note it.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Yeah. Reflect upon it. And then reflect upon your week because you're starting to get yourself back into that routine where we're building enough chemicals to give you capacity to look at things in a slightly different way. Your coping ability to look at maybe taking that next step. And then maybe it's not just that you get up and have a shower each day.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Maybe it's that you go for a five minute walk and so on and so forth. And I I think one of the other misconceptions is is that when we say activity, you don't have to go to the gym and bench press a 50 kilos for your activity or run a marathon. Going for a walk is enough, and you can increase the time that you walk for and how much energy you put in that in into your walk and your pace as time goes on. Raiti talks about it in his book Spark, how much we need to have exercise to stimulate our brain and get the chemicals to build and flow. And if we don't create the stimulation, we just spiral downwards, and we end up with the wrong chemicals in place, the cortisol, the stress hormone, which then makes us feel pretty rubbish.
Benn Baker-Pollard:And the brain then, as we know, goes into, I can't be asked to do anything because it's better for me to just sit here, and I don't have to worry then, and I'm safe.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. Christopher, what tip would you give to someone who is in that darker space where they're preparing themselves, not feeling great, not feeling able because they just see all their big goals as too big?
Chris Johannes:Yeah. It's important as well that we recognize I mean, we're all talking about body image as in being overweight, and I think that's just because we relate to that a bit better. But body image is obviously more than just being overweight. There's people that want to put more muscle on. I went to school with at least I can count at least five people, boys that always moaning about how skinny they were and couldn't put any any weight on or any mass on.
Chris Johannes:You know? So body image is is the moving and getting the exercise if you're overweight, and that can be a struggle, and there's lots of different things you can do with that. But when it comes to just your self esteem and your body image, it doesn't matter whether you think you're too fat, too thin, too short. I mean, it doesn't matter. Some things you can change.
Chris Johannes:Some things you can't change about your body. What's important is that you recognize what's rational. It's okay to want to get fitter, get thinner, get stronger. So if you've got is to get those motivations and you set those goals and you're approaching that from an intellectual point of view knowing that it's not gonna change overnight, that's healthy, and that's okay. But if you're in a place where you feel the the incremental tiny things about yourself are such devastating problem or the things that are out of your control, like your height or your, you know, whatever it may be, It there's clearly too much in your bucket.
Chris Johannes:We talk about the bucket. If you haven't listened to our podcast before, go back and listen to the one about where we're talking about our stress buckets. Everybody has stress bucket. You're putting too much in. You're having too much going on.
Chris Johannes:So it might be time to seek some therapy. You know, speak to a health professional, a mental health professional. Seek out some professional help and see what can be done.
Gary Johannes:I think people can find therapy, and it's like when you're ready to, there's always someone to talk to. Sometimes people don't realize they're ready because they're they're looking for other answers. But, actually, when you you know you've got people there, then reach out to them. And it's good to talk. But I think and and you've all hit on this.
Gary Johannes:One of the biggest things is whether it's external, internal motivation. And most of us are looking for external validation. You know? So I look really good in uniform. I now I now know that.
Gary Johannes:However, then I didn't know because I was comparing myself externally. If I'm like, Peter's looking in the mirror and he's at his heaviest, then he's going, yeah. Look at me. Yeah. It's having that internal thing.
Gary Johannes:So I know that my drive at the moment is internal because I'm not as healthy as I should be. I'm not as energized as I should be, so, therefore, I'm not as productive as I could be in my opinion. So that's about me. How do I make myself more? It's not going, how do I make myself more for someone else?
Gary Johannes:And that takes a while to learn who you are, but then that actually goes into every area of your life. You become more confident, more competent, and more comfortable with other people being other people because you don't need to compare yourself. But that's a hard job. But make a find a small thing which you can take on, whether that's doing some gardening. Ben talked about going on a walk.
Gary Johannes:But, actually, just tidying up around the house can be the activity. Just putting a little bit more effort in to what you're already doing. Because the main thing we need to drive is a chemical called dopamine, and we only get that when we're doing a bit more than normal. And that's what we need to do. And, actually, when we get a lot of that sort of stuff flowing, it's flows everything.
Gary Johannes:And, weirdly, motivation begets motivation. So the more motivated you are, the more motivated you'll be. So but you've gotta start absolutely within something you can achieve, which is more than what you're already doing. And if that's just having a shower, like Ben said, or going making your bed or going for just tidying the house up where you'd normally leave it or doing the washing up or filling the dishwasher or emptying the dishwasher, the extra activity then begates the next one. So definitely look at that and actually find someone to help you be accountable who's not nagging you.
Gary Johannes:If you you know, you've gotta come up with your goal. Someone else can't do this for you. But there's lots of people who we talk to to walk alongside you mentally as well as physically maybe, but certainly, mentally will walk alongside you to help you be what you need to be. It's not all about paying a fortune for gyms, paying fortunes for personal trainers, paying you know, you don't need that. You just need that intrinsic why, and everybody's got their why.
Peter Ely:That's brilliant. I I I recently was trying to start running again, and a friend of mine needed to do a five k. We don't live near each other, but we're Facebook friends. And we would literally post on each other's post on our post to say how we were getting on, and we had a race to five k. And it really motivated me on the days when I didn't want to to go for a run to have that person that was there chasing against me almost as it were.
Peter Ely:Yeah. It's a great point, Gary. Thank you.
Benn Baker-Pollard:I'm gonna ask a controversial question.
Gary Johannes:Go ahead, man. What about the parents
Benn Baker-Pollard:who allow their kids to become fat and obese?
Gary Johannes:You said you was gonna ask a convert controversial question, and that's a a proper of a question.
Benn Baker-Pollard:You know? Where does that sit? Their body image? Is it that their body image, they're fat, they're not happy with themselves, or and then they allow their kids to be fat and they don't care? Or are they setting their kids up to fail in the future?
Gary Johannes:I think there's a crossover with what Christopher said earlier, in my opinion. Christopher said about fat shaming. Now Piers Morgan is not my favorite person in the world. I've gotta say that before we start. I think a a lot of the stuff he says is just so he gets more people.
Gary Johannes:He he he creates haters almost. But a lot of me, not all of me, agrees with actually you know, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. And so he says it a little bit like he is like he is. However, now if you say anything we talked about on a previous podcast, but I'm offended by what you've said to somebody else. So I think if I want to eat everything in the shop, that's okay because I'm never gonna tell you you can't do something.
Gary Johannes:Now we know what we eat is directly related to our stress levels as much as our culture and expectations. So, yes, then you're probably right, but, actually, who is now allowed to go, you're not necessarily helping your child because there's a research sixty percent of children going into senior school are now obese, and there's research showing that anybody who's obese as as they go through adolescence will always have a struggle with obesity, people who are strong and fit and, you know, the old fashioned standard child maybe, in my opinion. You know? You wouldn't have that same level, but it's acceptable. You know, if you're now a size ten, you're really slim, and that's okay now.
Gary Johannes:Because anybody who's a size sixteen, you're not allowed to say them. They're not helping themselves because you're offensive.
Chris Johannes:I think, Ben, you've opened up maybe a good idea for another podcast and a conversation for another podcast. I think one thing I'd say about your comment of the parents that are bringing up children that are obese and overweight. You know, if you go if you take that back a bit, if if the parents are overweight and obese, then they've clearly got their own things going on. We know that eating in excess is a coping mechanism for something, for another issue, anxiety, depression, whatever it may be. And we know that children fees on the motions of their parents.
Chris Johannes:So if the parents' lives are full of stress and anxiety and problems and that eating is their coping mechanism, it kind of goes hand in hand that that's gonna get passed on down to the child. And the child, every time it's got emotion and children are quite emotional, got three of them, are quite willing to admit that. They are very emotional. And if eating is the considered household way to cope with that, then I can see how that can sort of spiral into a situation where nobody's really got control over it either way. Whether they're willingly doing it or neglectfully doing it is all up for opinion and debate.
Chris Johannes:But I personally think it's a bit of a vicious circle of last lack of control, and it's just funneling through.
Gary Johannes:But who can say anything about it?
Chris Johannes:And that's the thing, isn't it? You can those opinions and discussions will always be met by other discussions and opinions because, like you say, it is a bit of a hand grenade to throw into anywhere because you know you're gonna get a bit of backlash from that.
Gary Johannes:What's your thoughts, Ben? Because you brought it up and then Peter as well.
Benn Baker-Pollard:My my my issue with this is is that if we look at that, we're setting those kids up to fail. They are going to be bullied. They're gonna start scrolling social media. They're gonna start comparing themselves, and they won't have even got past probably 10, 11 before they realize and they start having that issue around their own confidence, their shame. Where does that stop?
Benn Baker-Pollard:Where does it take them to? I think there's I think there is a duty on parents.
Gary Johannes:But do you think it's now becoming normal, like I said? You know? There was a picture when we had the hot weather eighteen months ago, two years ago, and everybody was on Bournemouth Beach, and there was a picture taken in 1976, and I was next to each other in a paper. And I was identical by one thing size. Everybody in 1976, even the fat buggers like me, because I was always overweight.
Gary Johannes:And, you know, I was it but that's my nature. But I, you know, I remember when when I the first pub I had in the nineties, I was a thirty two inch waist, but I was still fat, you know, because I was bigger than the average. You probably had a thirty inch waist. Where now you look at the that thing and, you know, everybody's out sunbathing with a completely different standard. So maybe it's become more normal, and it's okay because nobody's allowed to say anything.
Gary Johannes:So I, you know, I've got friends who were who are very fit and run gyms, and and they actually think it's generally neglect. It's actually That was gonna be my next point. I was gonna say it would, in my book, constitute neglect. Yeah. So not because it it also has lots of health implications in later life.
Gary Johannes:Peter, what's your thoughts of it?
Peter Ely:It's a great question. I don't have kids. I it reminds me of a time when I was at college, and there was a guy, and he was incredibly fit. And I was talking to him because I was that kid that was a little bit overweight. And I remember when I was growing up, I was allowed sweets, and sweets were a reward.
Peter Ely:And I kinda said to this guy, I think I offered him a sweet or something like, and he said, no. No. I don't really eat sweets. And I said, how's that? He said, in my house, we've grown up fruit was the reward.
Peter Ely:And so his diet was very much different. So,
Benn Baker-Pollard:yeah, I
Peter Ely:mean, I really don't know the answer if I'm honest because I think, you know, parents will always try and give their children what they think they want or what they kind of wanted as a child, and maybe that's it. But I really don't know. It's a great question.
Gary Johannes:I I don't think we're gonna get to the answer on this call.
Chris Johannes:No. I don't think we are. I mean, I play I sit a bit of devil's advocate of if the parents struggling with their own lives, I can see how those little things can slip. However, my children are all fit and healthy. Saying that, you talk about children being overweight and obese.
Chris Johannes:My son's very, very slim. He's very skinny. You know? He's he's he's skinny. He's not slim.
Chris Johannes:He's very skinny. He's a fussy eater, but he's fit and healthy and strong. He's a very strong young man.
Benn Baker-Pollard:But is
Chris Johannes:that is that a similar situation? I said If
Gary Johannes:you if you took him took him to my school where I went to school when I was his age, he would have been the average of all of us. Yeah. But he's probably grow
Chris Johannes:up in a depression.
Gary Johannes:So Nor did I. Stop it. You know? But you know? And I and I think the challenge is because I don't think it's all linked to the parents' mental health.
Gary Johannes:I think it's a part conditioning and part this is why we do it. I'm not gonna be told. You're not gonna dictate. Society's not gonna dictate to me how I bring my child up. So they do as they please.
Gary Johannes:And the education so a few years ago and we're gonna finish very soon. But a few years ago, Finland, I believe and and correct me if I'm wrong. I might say all the wrong things here. It was that's why it's I think Finland and Europe had the highest rate of heart disease and people dying due to heart related issues in the whole of Europe. So the government decided to change this.
Gary Johannes:So they put a whole education from preschool all the way through. And within twenty years, within one generation, they now have one of the lowest rates of heart disease. But the government stood in and said we need to educate people because none of them were obese, but they was eating high cholesterol, high, you know, high value things, and it wasn't useful to them. But that was about education. And that
Benn Baker-Pollard:is Yeah.
Chris Johannes:The It
Benn Baker-Pollard:was one of the highest in the world. Sorry? It was one of the highest
Gary Johannes:Highest in the world. Yeah.
Benn Baker-Pollard:In the world, and it's reduced by declined by 60% over the past twenty years.
Gary Johannes:And that was the government taking on of going, we need we don't need to tell people what they're doing wrong. We need to educate people how to do things right. I don't think
Chris Johannes:But I'd say they do that. They teach kids about healthy eating in schools.
Gary Johannes:They they don't because we've got the I have you The UK is one of the fattest populations, and it's crippling in the NHS. It's causing us a lot of extra work, which, okay, is great. We've got work. We've got private practices, but I'd love not have any clients who are struggling with their image or comparison. And that comparison comes, like Ben said, of, well, this is why I brought up, and now I don't fit.
Gary Johannes:Now I've been bullied. Now I've been this. And maybe the children who are more obese are now picking on the skinny kids because, actually, the skinny kids are one that's out of things. So now the skinny kid wants to eat loads of bad food because they don't fit in. I mean, it's a bit of a cycle, and it's probably more political than it is mental health, but it's a big challenge.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Well, I thought I'd drop that bombshell in.
Gary Johannes:So Oh, yeah. Thank you, buddy.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. Yeah.
Peter Ely:It is. Right end.
Chris Johannes:It's alright. It's a good debate, isn't it? You know?
Gary Johannes:It is. And, ultimately, we still will come down to that mental health. And I think the little bit you put in there in the middle of that hang, Gwyneth, about how that then long term gives people issues and personal debates about whether they're good enough, whether they can, you know, be physically fit enough, look good enough, and challenges there. A lot of that will stem from their conditioning. And we know now you know, we talk a lot about nature, but nurture probably has more impact on your life and your well-being and your mental health than nature.
Gary Johannes:So there there is a crossover there. So we need to we know some of the stuff we do as the solution focused therapist is we do a lot of education as part of working with people. We we're not just saying fix fix fix. We're going, this is how you do it, and this is a long term. So you've got a lot of education to keep that and pass that on.
Gary Johannes:They can pass that on. So you know? I've got
Benn Baker-Pollard:to tell you guys as well I'm not here next week because I'm nipping off the turkey to get some new pecs get my teeth done.
Gary Johannes:Is that not two weeks? They can now do it in a week.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Yes. They do. Come back in
Gary Johannes:on Amazon.
Benn Baker-Pollard:Well, you could. Well, I think they're a different type of dressing up, Gary. I'm not sure that's for this show.
Gary Johannes:Yeah. Okay. We we have enough of your dark side, but but let her know knowing the truth. Right. Let's wrap this up.
Gary Johannes:So, you know, it's been a really interesting podcast and an interesting subject, which has gone in lots of different directions. But I just wanna, you know, reiterate the last tip for each of you, just a very quick ten second tip of how somebody can get off that couch and take some action or start to feel a little bit better about their own image. Who wants to go first?
Benn Baker-Pollard:Write down your what's been good.
Gary Johannes:Write down what's been good each day, Peter.
Peter Ely:Have a goal. Have a nice small achievable goal.
Gary Johannes:Christopher.
Chris Johannes:You know, if you're really, really struggling, maybe it's time to speak to somebody in mental health profession, whether that's hypnotherapy or any kind of thing that works for you.
Gary Johannes:And for me, it's about visualization. Visualize a thing you can achieve. Really get a clear picture of what it's like to go for a walk or whatever, and then execute the best you can. So thank you, everybody. That's goodbye from me, Gary.
Gary Johannes:You guys
Peter Ely:Goodbye from me, Peter.
Chris Johannes:Goodbye from me.
Gary Johannes:The mail with her name. Thank you, everybody. We'll see you on the next podcast. I hope you do this. Please, please, please leave some feedback for us.
Gary Johannes:Tell us what you think of it. Tell us which one of us, you know, is the best look in or whatever you need to do. Who drives
Benn Baker-Pollard:them the most?
Gary Johannes:Who who's the most engaging? But leave a comment. Leave leave feedback. Anything you want. Like us.
Gary Johannes:Share our stuff on the Internet. If you know somebody else who's struggling, do share some of the content with them, you know. But, actually, we really wanna make a difference to people's lives and if we can. But we can only do that with your support. So thank you for the support we've had so far, and I look forward to speaking to you again soon.
Gary Johannes:So thank you very much from Inspired Men Talk.
