Breaking the 'Man Up' Culture: Stuart Bratt's Journey from RAF to Men's Mental Health Champion
Download MP3Welcome to Inspired Men Talk, four solution focused therapists born in four different decades who openly and honestly discuss their perspectives on the issues surrounding men's mental health. The things that stigmas say we don't talk about. So welcome to this episode of Inspired Men Talk. And today, we have another amazing guest, Stuart Bratt, who runs and is the founder CEO of Tough Enough to Care, an amazing charity looking mostly at men's mental health. I know he's broadened that scope a little bit, but we wanna find out so much more about Stuart and what Stuart does and why he's doing what he does.
Speaker 1:So without any further, we're gonna ask Stuart to introduce himself and tell us a little bit more about him. Hi, Stuart.
Stuart Bratt:Hi, Gary. Yep. Thanks for having me on, mate, and hi to the rest of the guys as well. Yeah. So I'm I'm Stu.
Stuart Bratt:I set up tough enough to care or back in March 2019 after I lost two friends to suicide within four days of each other. And my own background, I was the self proclaimed sort of head coach, team manager, cheerleader, team captain of the Man Up team. Mental health was a weakness. Suicide was selfish. All those negative terms and phrases that you hear.
Stuart Bratt:My own history, I'd I've grown up playing rugby. I'm fat ginger. My surname's Bratt, and my dad was a teacher at the school. So clearly, I was gonna get left left school as as soon as possible. Did not wanna go into further education or anything like that and join the military.
Stuart Bratt:So I've always been in those male dominated spaces and what I now see as those sort of toxic man up cultures. And it never appeared to me or never I'd never realized the damage it can do to people that were struggling. Since setting up the charity, I've realized that I've struggled probably all of my adult life and a little bit before that as well. Never wanted to admit it. Never knew what I was looking for or anything like that, whether I didn't know there was a problem because I didn't know what the problem could have been.
Stuart Bratt:But yeah. So I left the military after seven years. I did multiple operational tours of Iraq, Afghanistan in the RAF. And before anyone slates me, I was on Chinook helicopters, so it was more like the army than the RAF. It wasn't fast jets and Samsonite suitcases.
Stuart Bratt:So
Speaker 1:so it's okay. Sure. I'm ex RAF, and I mostly was on squadron. So, you know, very different from the what people see as the day to day. So a bit bit greasy, bit everything else because, you know, it didn't the old fashioned version of the RAF never fitted me either.
Speaker 1:So
Stuart Bratt:No. Definitely not. No. So I
Speaker 3:thought you were just a cleaner, Gary, weren't you?
Speaker 1:Yes. But I cleaned the squadron. Top
Stuart Bratt:tape top T bar cleaner.
Speaker 1:There we go. Yeah. Yeah. T bar. It is.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. So I I I left the RAF and went into industrial engineering. So I was still chucking spanners at things, just different uniform and not getting shot at anymore. Mhmm. Still in the same mindset, the same mentality in these spaces that mental health was the weakness and and all of that.
Stuart Bratt:And as I said, March or February 2019, I had a call to say that one of the lads I served well, he was in the navy when I was in the RAF, but we played under eighteens rugby, under twenties, 20, 20, first team, all the way through against each other and with each other for combined services. So he was like a brother. And it just out of the blue, he had the text to say that he'd taken his own life. And instantly, I went to he's weak. He's selfish.
Stuart Bratt:How dare he? Can't believe he did that to any of us. And I was still in that mindset, and I did what everybody does. I feel bad, so I'll go to the pub. Because the the answer will definitely be in the bottom of 20 pint glasses.
Stuart Bratt:Four days later, another message to say a friend had taken her own life. And, again, she was part of that male dominated space. She was going through training for the army, and I went straight to that negative place again. How dare she? She's weak.
Stuart Bratt:And then I kind of stopped myself, gave myself a bit of a talking to and said, well, neither of these people were weak. Neither were selfish. There's something more to be done here. So, again, after another 20 points, I've got an idea. And it it was just it started from a Facebook post.
Stuart Bratt:Just said no context whatsoever because I hadn't really told anyone why I was out in a bender. It was Friday night, so it was just over a rough week, and that's it. I didn't wanna talk about feelings and mental health. And I just put something on Facebook. Don't be a dick.
Stuart Bratt:Talk. Yeah. And woke up the next morning to a bit of piss taking, which I'd have been upset if there wasn't. I'd have been seriously concerned, but nothing negative. Everything was positive and thought, do you know what?
Stuart Bratt:We we're on to something here. And I think a lot of the soul searching that I did, every answer I came back to was that I was the problem. Me and the people with my mindset were the problem. We all talk about talking. We all talk about what needs to change.
Stuart Bratt:Why can't we change? And then and that's kind of my journey from from there to now, really. But as I said before, think you Google something, you can pinpoint all the different symptoms, can't you? Doctor Google's this wonderful thing. But there's a lot of key moments in my life that I can now pinpoint and highlight and say, I really struggled there, and there was no one around me that actually said, are you okay?
Stuart Bratt:Put their arm around me and said, look. How can we get through this together? And that's that's kind of what I do now. That's why I'm so passionate about it. I've not been I hated school.
Stuart Bratt:I've not been to college, university. I haven't got a degree in anything. I've just got lived experience of trying to to help people. And I'll be honest, it felt really crap losing teammates to something that you could potentially have saved them from. So I just don't want anybody to feel that way again.
Speaker 1:As always, I've got about a thousand questions which I could ask, but they keep telling me off because I talk too much, and I hog all the the microphone. So before I ask my thousand questions, because we've got very similar backgrounds, and we've spoke before, although it was quite a long time ago. Do you guys, from that amazing sort of dialogue of what how Stuart got to where he is, do you have any questions?
Speaker 4:Yeah. I think so from from my perspective, Stuart, I mean, we probably are a similar sort of age group, and and that man up culture was very something that I was brought up with as well, and it's something that we've found on this podcast is that, you know, Gary and I had one sort of upbringing, and Ben and Chris's upbringing has been slightly different as society has progressed. And do you think it's been it's easier now for people to to talk? Do you think I mean, because we still see, or I certainly do still see that man up culture is still about. It's not as prevalent, but it's still about.
Speaker 4:Do you think it's easier for people now to kind of seek help?
Stuart Bratt:Yes and no. I think it is because people are talking about it. We do a lot of work now with schools and colleges and universities. The only time in my life I'll ever actually go to a university. And it's been talked about, you know, my kids, they're seven and 10.
Stuart Bratt:And they're coming home and they're talking obviously know what I do. And they're talking about mental health awareness week, and it it's been discussed in schools. You know, when when I went through school, it was leaves are green because of this. Oh, suicide's bad. Don't kill yourself.
Stuart Bratt:It's rubbish. And this is the water cycle. That that was mental health in school. There was nothing. And everywhere you go now, they've got access to sort of university.
Stuart Bratt:They've got Nightline if someone's struggling. You go into businesses and they've got EAP and the employment employee assistance programs. It's easier to get in touch with someone and to talk to somebody. But I think because it's it's almost the in thing at the minute, health, it's it's the trend across social media, the mainstream media. And I think because of that, the people that were in the Manup camp are sort of sharpening the pitchforks and lighting the torches a little bit more because it's the new bad back and all that kind of stuff.
Stuart Bratt:So although, yes, it's easy to talk and it's easier to get to talk to somebody because there are so many outlets and options now. Yep. It's still that, do you wanna stick your head above the the trenches just in case? Because there are people that whereas before it might have been a bit of a throwaway comment, it's now a really cutting damaging remark because they're getting pissed off because people aren't sticking with their narrative, and people are daring to stray away from the the pack slightly.
Speaker 1:Do do you think that's an age related thing as well? Well, people say of my generation, which is slightly older than yours, compared to, say, Christopher's generation, who's the youngest one at the team, do you think there's a that that Barb is more sharp with the older generation than it is the younger generation? Still still not children, though.
Stuart Bratt:I think it is, but not it's not completely just down to age. I think it's, again, it's the environment because say, for instance, you take someone straight out of school and they go into a foundry or a factory where it probably is people of our generation and older that have got that mentality because it is that tough, you know, there's a job to be done here and it's not it's not pink, it's not fluffy, we need to get it done. It's that mentality. So you've got younger people then that have to fit that mold. Otherwise, they're not gonna fit in at that at that place.
Stuart Bratt:And that's when you said earlier about us diversifying from just male mental health, that's why we did it. And we changed the brand into supporting people, not labels, because we realized it wasn't just men. It was people within those spaces. It was anybody operating within that space that could be toxic that we needed to offer the support to. Because, yes, generationally, the older they are, the tougher they are to, the the harder the nut is to crack.
Stuart Bratt:But it's like you can't teach an old dog new tricks. But then every so often, you'll get one come along and surprise you and be like, oh, wow. You know, he's he's done this job for fifty years, but he's now flying the flag for mental health. And if you can get those people, we call them the king dicks. If you can go into a rugby club or to a factory and you can pick out the king dick
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:And you can crack that nut, everyone else will follow. It's like dominoes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you're gonna spot them. Every rugby team, every squadron. I remember when I was in every squadron, every flight, every everything you was involved in, there was always that one in the squadron who was that, what you call, kindic. And they did.
Speaker 1:Their their culture, everybody was almost scared of them. There was almost bullies, you know, in their attitude.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. And if you could find them and they sort of they don't have to go along with everything, but they if they can sort of nod and smile at the odd thing and kind of buy into what you're selling, everyone else will follow because now it's almost like they're allowed to we're allowed to be open on this now, which is ridiculous, really, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. We're all we're all grown ups, but Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:We still have that kind of mentality.
Speaker 3:Out of interest, I worked in the police, but I've never been in the military. When you're out and you're serving in Iraq or you're exercise doing something, it that nobody talks about the mental health? Or is it actually because you're more of that family unit there's a little bit more give and people do talk about it? Because you kind of get this I know there's a lot around veterans and coming out of the army and the lack of support potentially that's there but what I also see is from social media and things is that when you're out on deployment, you almost are a really close family and a team. And I would kind of anticipate that there would be some talk about it, but maybe it's not.
Speaker 3:So what is it actually like when you're serving?
Stuart Bratt:It's weird. If if you imagine, you know, what the army do six months about, they do long tours out there. We tended to cycle through in two or three month tours, and you'd go out with a group of lads, and you come back with that same group of lads. So you were you were there together. You were family for for two, three months.
Stuart Bratt:I can tell you loads of funny things that happened on every single tour that I went on, every exercise I went on. I could never tell you what we talked about ever. I do remember one one instance of one of the lads. He came out as bisexual. And like I said just about suicide in school, we were sat there playing hookers.
Stuart Bratt:Remember ukkers, Gary?
Speaker 1:Slightly. I I was in in the eighties, so a lot of lot of my memories have been lost and quite old.
Stuart Bratt:Very good. It's it's a board game that basically just try and shaft each other. Yeah. So we were there playing ukkers, and we were just chatting rubbish. And out of nowhere, it just came up in conversation that he was bisexual, and then he was really worried about it.
Stuart Bratt:And the lads were like, yeah. That's fine. We know. Anyway, right, you've gotta do this. So it was those kind of things that you had that support network around you.
Stuart Bratt:You had those conversations, but I never remember it being a conversation, if if that makes sense at all. No one ever sat down and went, I'm really struggling. Can we talk? You were family. You knew when someone was struggling.
Stuart Bratt:There was no way they could hide it in a place like that because you were in each other's pockets twenty four seven. You slept together. You ate together. You worked together. Then the only downtime you had was a couple of hours between work and sleep, and you'd go to the gym together or you'd go for you'd you were never away from each other.
Stuart Bratt:So there was no hiding it. And I think because of that, there was never a need to sit and have a conversation or sit and have a chat. You were just always constantly talking and chatting. So it probably doesn't really answer your question very well.
Speaker 3:It does in one sense, though, because I know I can kind of see that when you come away from that and that closeness and that relationship is gone, suddenly, you become incredibly isolated and alone on the outside world. And therefore, that relationship where people would automatically know has just disappeared overnight. So I
Stuart Bratt:I struggled hugely when I left. And, I mean, I've been I've been out now for fifteen years, but it's only been the last few months I've actually realized how much I truly struggled because, as I said, there was never those conversations of I'm struggling. I'm really excited. I'm really sad. It was just general chitchat, and we were there.
Stuart Bratt:Nothing nothing was off the cards. You could talk about anything. You could share whatever you wanted. You know, it's it's a bit crude, but, you know, when when lads had pictures of their missus sent from home, emails, messages, you're all young lads, aren't you, at the time, and everything is shared. Everyone's deepest fears, weirdest fantasies, you name it, it's talked about.
Stuart Bratt:It's nothing nothing's off the table. And then as soon as you walk out of those camp gates when you leave, it's gone.
Speaker 5:You see, to me, that backs up everything we do. What we we've got Inspired Men Talk. We set this up because we know men can talk and they do talk. And we don't like the idea that men don't talk, which is normally a big slogan. And like you said, when you're in that right environment, men do talk, and it doesn't and there's no effort behind it.
Speaker 5:It just it happens. So that kind of just speaks to everything that we do really, to inspired men or men do talk when they're given those good circumstances and that that space to be able to talk freely.
Stuart Bratt:I can't remember the last time one of our support groups finished on time.
Speaker 1:No. Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:I say to all the times of people, people say men don't talk, come to one of our groups. Because once you get them going, you just can't stop them. It's like, lads, shut up. You're going home.
Speaker 1:But so the air forces obviously or the forces might have changed a lot. So when I was in the air force in the eighties, in the early eighties, the only thing we got involved was with the Falklands war. And I did go to The Falklands just after the campaign, the main campaign. I was in during the campaign, but I had a different role. But then you got posted as an individual.
Speaker 1:So in the army, the squadron or whatever they call it, the troop or whatever, they all go to every everything. The one you get assigned to that regiment. You're in that regiment for life, and you know everybody forever. In the air force, you're a lone ranger the whole time. You might get posted somewhere, spend three years there, six years there, and you get to know people.
Speaker 1:But everybody you get to know, oh, they've just got posted, and they've gone individually. So you never had apart from on those detachments, you never had that collegial tightness which was always there. You was always on the verge of being isolated and posted out again and have to start again. So did that change in your time then? Was it a little bit more you was on a squadron, you was there, you was always together?
Stuart Bratt:I was really lucky because I was on Chinook helicopters down in Odium in Hampshire. Operationally, it's probably one of the smallest operational bases in The UK.
Speaker 1:I was on better helicopters. I was with Sea Kings, So they're better.
Stuart Bratt:Sorry. I thought you said better. Yeah. I was on the king of helicopters, the actual king of helicopters.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. Now so it small Odium was was really small, and you would get people sort of coming in and out, but I was really lucky. I spent my entire career there. And you speak to people at other bases, other units, and I was probably a little bit sort of blinkered at the time, but I wouldn't in my head, I didn't wanna be anywhere else. This was the place for me, and I was really lucky.
Stuart Bratt:I played a high level of rugby whilst I was in there. I was close to London, so I could go and play for the teams in there. I was in the r the rap rugby team combined services. So I do as much time away as possible.
Speaker 1:So you never worked till a Wednesday? Pardon? You never worked on a Wednesday?
Stuart Bratt:Oh, Gary. When I was back in The UK, I never worked at all. I was a proper tracksuit soldier. I was.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. But Wednesday was always sports day. Yeah. So the the air you wanted to do anything, attack on a Wednesday afternoon because everybody would play the sport.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. Attack anywhere but the sports pavilion because it was full of everyone. Yeah. No. So I'd I'd spend months away with that band of brothers.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. And then as soon as I was back in The UK, I'd be with my rugby family, which were from they were from units all over The UK. So I had that. It was almost like the extended family as well. I never had to move on my own as as an individual.
Stuart Bratt:I was always just bouncing from one pack to another pack, which, again, I I feel really, really lucky that I I'm fortunate that I had that opportunity because I know a lot of people can bounce around, and it's a three year post. And then just as you've really got to know people, you're on the move to the other end of the country again, and then you're bouncing and you're bouncing. And if you've got a wife and kids, it's gonna be even tougher because you deal the upheaval there. I was lucky. I never had those pressures.
Stuart Bratt:I I literally just played.
Speaker 1:So I've got Played and got got
Stuart Bratt:got paid to get pissed for
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So I I've got a question for you. Why didn't you put your arm around people when you as a serviceman, when you as a rugby player?
Speaker 1:Because that's what you wish now.
Stuart Bratt:Oh, yeah. I I think, one, I would have been embarrassed too because I didn't think I didn't think that was the manly thing to do. And people talk about the toxic masculinity in the forces. It's not as bad as as people say. It's it is there.
Stuart Bratt:It's the same with racism. It's there in every part of life, but it's not as bad as as the press would have you believe. But they they break you down to rebuild you into their mold, which I I get it. You know, they're they're trying to build every single one of you into a machine that fits a purpose. And I think because of that, it was you adopted that mentality of it's weak if you speak.
Stuart Bratt:It's it's not manly. It's not strong to to put your arm around someone. You just put your big boy pants on and crack on. And I now see how damaging that was, but at the time, it just felt normal. So I don't think it was that I didn't want to or didn't put my arm around somebody.
Stuart Bratt:I didn't see that as an option. It just wasn't again, it wasn't something that was on the table to go, oh, he's struggling. He definitely needs some proper sort of, like, man cuddle right within this together. It was easier to just go, oh, come on. You were fine last week.
Stuart Bratt:I saw you smiling yesterday. There's nothing wrong with you. And it was the easy easy route then to just crack on with the job.
Speaker 3:What would you say your I know, obviously, you had your two friends here that that took their own lives. But when you came out of being in the services, what was your biggest personal challenge for you in terms of your your mental well-being?
Stuart Bratt:I'd lost all sense of purpose. I had all these grand ideas. I was leaving, and it was all set. I was joining the police. So I was gonna go straight from the RAF into the police.
Stuart Bratt:I'd spoken to them, and I was gonna go down the, the firearms route after a few years, blah blah blah. Everything was spot on. Six months into my twelve month notice period, we the recession hit the two thousand and nine financial crash. And the police along with pretty much the rest of the world just stopped recruitment everywhere. We just stop it.
Stuart Bratt:So I thought, right. Well, I'm still gonna come out because that's my plan, and I'll just pick up a couple of jobs. And then when it all picks up again, I'm gonna get back on that journey. That's that's my purpose in life to do that. And I just I walked out those camp gates, and I just slumped.
Stuart Bratt:I thought it'll be a couple of weeks of party period, then I'll have to work. The joke is when you leave the forces, are you gonna have to work for a living now? Yeah. Luckily enough, I got into a job, say, doing the industrial engineering. Six months after that, I was laid off again because of the recession, and that's when it properly kicked me because I'd I'd gone into this job, and it was three nights on average working away from home, decent money, still going around the country, you know, three up in a van with a group of lads, glass of glass bottle of Iron Brew, some newspaper, and a pack of fags, you know, that kind of stereotypical view.
Stuart Bratt:I kind of thought, yeah. I'm alright here. It's it's not as bad as I thought it was gonna be, but I still missed it wasn't that closeness. It was just lads and banter. There was no Mhmm.
Stuart Bratt:Connection. And then after after six months when they laid me off, it just floored me. And you ask all the, you know, all the questions you ask yourself. Have I done the right thing? Why did I leave a job that I was so good at?
Stuart Bratt:You know, there's only a few of us in the whole of the RAF that could do what we did. Why did I leave that job? Yeah. I've I've I've messed up. You know?
Stuart Bratt:I'm I'm gonna be a rubbish I was getting married at the time, and I thought, I'm gonna be a rubbish husband because I can't bring anything in. And, again, that mindset of I'm the man. I earn the money. I have to be the strong type. So I just sort of pushed through it, but I lost as I say, I lost all sense of purpose.
Stuart Bratt:There was just no I had no identity anymore. I was just your standard bloke out of work. I'd gone from I was fighting wars for my country to I've got a sign on next week, and I couldn't get my head around that.
Speaker 4:I wanna I wanna throw Gary's question back at him because, obviously, Gary, you were also in the forces, and and Chris So and I haven't did you ever put your arm around anybody when you were in there? Did you ever kind of have that
Speaker 5:mental Again, health
Speaker 1:I was in in the eighties, so it was even a little bit more different, a little bit probably harder from a point of man up point of view. So I similar I've done six years, Stuart done seven. And it's really weird because that's not a long time. You speak to a lot of servicemen, and they've done the twenty years and you know twenty two whatever. And you can go, oh they're institutionalised.
Speaker 1:And I was talking to Ben just before we were started about how you walk out those gates, you're demil pappy. The first thing you do is grow your hair and you burn your uniform sort of thing. You need to go a beard and that, but you still got a short haircut because eventually it sort of goes full circle. You go back to what you're trained. And even after just doing six years, it's it's like Stuart said it actually.
Speaker 1:They break you down and build you. So you can't get rid of some of those disciplines what you even though you go, I wish I didn't have them, but they are who you are now. So when I one of the intro and I think I've told you this before, and it's something I'm very embarrassed about now. But when I was in the eighties, it was illegal to be gay in the forces. And there was a guy, Andy, and he was so effeminate now now looking back.
Speaker 1:And he ultimately used to get a lot, a lot of stick. And I was never I never gave him stick, but I never looked after him. I never protected him. And he end up being quite a dishonest sort of chap. But now you look back, he was like stealing the tea money from the tea bar from the squadron to get the train home and things like that.
Speaker 1:And then then he went AWOL and things. But he used to we had SIB, which Stuart might know what that means. They come in and questioned us all because he used to get beaten up by some of the alpha males in the group, you know, who those king dicks because he was and and and, you know, it's it was what you just you wouldn't do that. And if somebody was struggling and they were showing what we saw, you know, just being wusses or wimps or, you know, you just see them as not capable, not that they needed any help, they shouldn't have joined. That was it.
Speaker 1:They shouldn't have joined. And the quicker they get an admin discharged, quite often they did. And now you realize, Jesus, half of that was caused by our behavior of not actually supporting them. Not even not even doing anything bad to them, but not supporting them. So in those early eighties, it was still probably wrong.
Speaker 1:You know? One of my best friends in the air force, Ronnie, he was a big black guy. And and you know we had an Asian sergeant who was called sergeant Matthews. That wasn't his real name, but he changed it because otherwise nobody would he wouldn't have fitted in. That's what the forces were like back then.
Speaker 1:Now I think it's so much better. But then we've got Stuart setting up a charity to support veterans, so there's still something wrong. I don't know what it is.
Stuart Bratt:Well, that was and I was I have to say that we still do a lot of work with serving forces as well, not just veterans, and it is changing.
Speaker 1:It's
Stuart Bratt:it's it's in small pockets. It's not happening as a sort of overarching umbrella change, but there are small pockets with the camp I was on, ODM, doing loads.
Speaker 1:Beautiful camp with a load in.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. It's love it there. Every every time I get an invite, oh, we're having a mental health awareness. We we can't pay expense. I'm there.
Stuart Bratt:Don't worry. I'm coming. Leeming up north. Yeah. Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:Just pockets randomly around the country that they are starting to make those changes. But going back to what you were saying there, Gary, I remember it's a memory's come back to me going through basic training, and you've got six or eight bed spaces. And what they do, your final I think it was the forty two day 42 inspection. They take you out on the ground for a three or four day exercise. Mhmm.
Stuart Bratt:And you have to take all of your kit with you, all of your green kit.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Stuart Bratt:And even if it's the hottest, sunniest four days, they will find that pool of mud Yeah. On the last the last ten minutes.
Speaker 1:Sheep shit.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. Just so everything's covered, and you've had no sleep for three or four days. And, right, get yourself squared away. O 800 tomorrow morning, inspection. Day 42 is everything.
Stuart Bratt:Everything you own.
Speaker 1:Bed pack, the lot. Everything had to be perfect.
Stuart Bratt:And this guy, we all were there or thereabouts, and this guy was just sat. His stuff piled on his bed behind him, in his pants, just sat cross legged, head in hands just rocking. It it they'd broken him. They'd they'd pushed and pushed and pushed, and he was he was broken. And at the time, no one put an arm around him.
Stuart Bratt:I remember it now quite vividly. We didn't put an arm around him. We just asked him to move out the way. So we all clubbed together to help him, but by getting his bed space done and all his kit done and folded and everything, no one actually checked on him because if we can get that done, the room doesn't get in trouble. Yes.
Stuart Bratt:Because if one person lets the room down, we're all getting in trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's just saving your own necks.
Stuart Bratt:If if they find a dead woodlace in your wardrobe, you'll get a punishment for keeping a pet, and then you get another punishment for letting it die. It's that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. It is true.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I I remember polishing galvanized dustbins one day. I'm going because
Stuart Bratt:Yep. Well, painting the grass green and Yeah. Painting the the curbstones black again when when royalty was coming. Yeah. But, yeah, I'd it's only just come back to me that memory.
Stuart Bratt:And, yeah, no one put an arm the only arm they put round him was to move him out of the way so we could get the job done. And I I won't say his name because I'm pretty certain he he passed out, and he's probably still in the in the forces now. But had we have just left him that day, he'd have been beasted up and down the the parade square, and it it wouldn't have been nice for anybody.
Speaker 5:I just wanna kinda drop back a little bit. Something you said early on was that this new attitude towards mental health with it being almost trendy, which we hear a lot, it'll be almost fashionable. It's getting talked a lot about in schools. I've got a 13 year old daughter. They do a lot of talking about it, but they also do a lot of negative talking about it in a sense that they they it becomes a part of their culture, having mental health issues.
Speaker 5:And you said something really interesting that made me think actually that is more damaging to progress with mental health than it is helpful sometimes. And I just want to talk a little bit more about that because actually I think that's a really important thing. There's a lot of good work happening around mental health. There's a lot of people like yourself while you're doing this and like they are trying to talk about it more but there seems to be a line that's almost getting a bit muddied and a little bit blurred where when is too much and where does it go too far where it's actually having a counter effect where like you say you get those people that were that are a bit more, more mental health is something you don't need to talk about like you say they're sharpening their pitchforks up because it's becoming more and more in your face more and more as far as they're concerned so and this is not just a generational thing like I think that's been said a couple of times because I know people my own age that have that same attitude to always saying he's got anxiety that's just it just can't be asked to go to work it's the new bad back like you said.
Speaker 5:I've heard that said by so many people of my age and older and younger. So where do we where do we find think that that we can we can work through that? How how can we balance this?
Stuart Bratt:I think it's tough because the bad back one, and I'll say this to a lot of people, yes, mental health is the new bad back, and that's gonna be used by the people that have used the bad back excuse. And those same people that use bad back are now using mental health. And in six months time when it's pink cabbages that are the the thing, they'll be using that excuse, and those people will never change. They'll only change the narrative of how they're getting Tom off work, basically. And it's it's really hard because everybody kinda gets tired with that brush going back to the the bed space and the room inspection.
Stuart Bratt:We all have to pick up his slack. So with that instant mindset, oh, he's off with a with mental health. Move that back. We've all now got to pick up his workload. So then the genuine person that is struggling won't come out and say that they're struggling because they don't wanna be the way they see it as a burden on on everybody else.
Stuart Bratt:And I think your other comment that you said is absolutely spot on. We're think we're on a knife edge at the minute on everybody wants a label. Like, I get it. There were kids, lads I went to school with who clearly had autism, ADHD, and they would have been in a much better place in life now had they got the support they clearly needed in the mid eighties nineties when we went through school. But that being said, there is now probably a queue at the head teacher's door of every primary school across The UK.
Stuart Bratt:I want a label on my child because I want this, and we're gonna get that. And not every child needs labeling. You do just genuinely get naughty kids, quiet kids, crazy kids. They don't have to have that label, but because it's being talked about and Doctor. Google is on hand, you know, I'm sat here now, I've got two phones next to me, I'm on a laptop, Doctor.
Stuart Bratt:Google's everywhere. People want these labels because they think they're going to be answers and they almost feel they have to live up to if that diagnosis is that symptom, that symptom, that symptom, they push themselves to act in that way to kind of achieve that label, which I think is really dangerous and I think it could be it could see a lot of mental health support crashing down because the people that genuinely need it are stuck in a queue with people that are just trying to find that label.
Speaker 5:Yeah. And I think that's the the most important thing to take away from that is those people that genuinely need it. And like you say, with the with people being diagnosed with additional needs, you know, they have to jump through 20 more hoops and wait twice as long because of that. And those are the people that generally need the support. I don't know if it's necessarily people doing this intentionally to get the attention or to get the label for selfish reasons.
Speaker 5:I think it's subliminally been embedded into a culture at the moment, particularly at that young age. Teenagers at the moment, I don't think they're doing they're they're screaming out these these things because because of any malicious intent. I don't think they're doing it for the wrong reasons. I think they believe it. And I think that's the most
Stuart Bratt:dangerous part of it.
Speaker 5:You know? And these parents queuing up at the at the teacher's office, I think 90% of them believe it. It's not they're doing it for personal gain. It's been embedded through media, through even social media, and through, the I mean, like, you just like at the pub, you've always got the professor, haven't you? You've always got the pub philosopher.
Speaker 5:The pet the school gate's no different you know when you go in non school run there's always those parents that know everything about everything and can diagnose every child it's in the culture and I think it's I don't think it's a selfish reason I think it's just been embedded.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. And it's it's tough as well because my oldest, he he needs some additional support at school. And we're starting to get worried now because he's going into year six next year. And, obviously, we're starting looking at high schools and certain schools we wanna get him into. But if he hasn't got a certain plan in place Mhmm.
Stuart Bratt:Because of funding and because there are so many people we can't get and I hate it. I really absolutely hate it, but we kind of need that label to get him that we try as much as we can at home. He gets as much support as the school can possibly give him. But without if he just got that one little label and tick in a box somewhere after jumping through 50 hoops and over a 100 hurdles, all of a sudden, world opens up to him. And it's tough because I'm kind of on both sides of the fence.
Stuart Bratt:I want people to stop going for the labels so I can selfishly get him some support. Yeah. But equally, everybody should have the same crack of the whip. You know, that everyone should have that chance to do it. And, yeah, like you said, no one's doing it maliciously.
Stuart Bratt:It's because it's so out there. People think that's the way they need to go. That's that's genuinely it's not I'm going to hatch a plan. It's this is this is how life is, and this is the way we've got to do it now.
Speaker 3:I think that comes back
Speaker 1:to the point
Speaker 3:you made, though, is that the mental health services are gonna basically fall over a break. I think they already have.
Stuart Bratt:Oh no.
Speaker 3:And I think that's why we're in this position, it's who shouts the loudest, who does what they need to do to get in the door. Hence, we've seen you set up your own charity to support guys or women who are struggling with their own mental health because reality is primary care doesn't exist. Completely fallen over and it's completely broken.
Stuart Bratt:No. You're right a 100%, and it's worrying at the minute. Within the last two weeks, I've seen two small charities, bigger than us, but on the grand scheme of things, small charities who have been doing great things for a good many years, They've folded because there's just no money. Last week alone, none of our services need referrals. But last week alone, we had 10 referrals from NHS social prescribers to come to our support groups and use our services and stuff.
Stuart Bratt:Yet, in that same two week period that we've had all of these referrals come our way, we've had not one single accepted funding request. We've had 12 thanks, but no thankses or 10 thanks, but no thankses. You know? So we're having all this additional pressure on our services. You've seen all these reports about the NHS just bleeding money left, right, and center, And those same people are sending them to us.
Stuart Bratt:And everyone's saying, yes. Sorry. No. We're not gonna give you any money. So I'm not sure I'm not sure how we're supposed to carry on.
Stuart Bratt:Is it sort of like handshakes and backslaps or or what? But something something's clearly broken because the primary care is overrun and there's no backup plan. And I don't think it comes down to sort of government or anything like that. So so without trying to get political, something somewhere has got to change very soon.
Speaker 1:So so not being political, but being political. It's almost a conspiracy theory that and I've been doing this for thirteen years working in the mental health space as a private practitioner. The other four guys or the other three guys here, private practitioners, you run a mental health charity. And we're getting busier and busier, and the whole industry is getting busier and busier. But the NHS have not really changed and not because of their fault, you know, they get the smallest budget for all health services, although they're one of the biggest needs and children's mental health get 6% of that budget, even though most mental health challenges start before the age of 18.
Speaker 1:So maths don't work out. And I've got this theory is mental health are trying, you know, the governments, the politics of the day regardless of color are trying to marginalize mental health like they did dentistry, so you now become private. Mental health, apart from the severe cases of psychosis and things like that, but generalized mental health issues, you go private. And I think that's where they're trying to move mental health because it's too big to take on as the NHS. They've messed it up too much, whichever color of the politics.
Speaker 1:And I think slowly but surely, you're gonna end up with mental health all being either charity based or private practice based.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. I think I think my my biggest worry for something like that is private practitioners absolutely brilliant for what you do because people can access it instantly rather than an eighteen month waiting list. But just look at dentistry. Look how many people that that they're living through absolute agony Yeah. Because they either can't get into a dentist or they just simply can't afford it.
Stuart Bratt:And my my worry there is and I'm and I'm not saying this is a dig at you guys because you're not I I I don't know the rest of you, but, Gary, I know you and you I know you're not that sort of person. If it privatizes people struggling with their mental health are in a moment of weakness, you know, where they can be sort of preyed upon by someone and Totally. That we work. Okay to go to these private practices. There will be people out there just like the bad back people
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:That will prey on the vulnerable.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, there'll be private practitioners who prey on those vulnerable people. We work very hard. Tourists are lecturers. We try and train the best people, and we try and uphold that best thing. But there will be people who just say, oh, I can make money out of this without actually giving a quality service, and we are all worried about that.
Speaker 1:But I think it you know, in my head, it's gonna be like dentistry. You can still have NHS dentistry if you can find it.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. That's good to say. Yeah.
Speaker 1:They're just marginalizing.
Stuart Bratt:Heard rumors of this NHS test.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's still there. They haven't privatized it. They just made it impossible. So anybody with any level of income, any level because if you wanted to go completely private for a dentist tomorrow, you could go into dentistry to get a dentist tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's those people who sit there can't go private, so they have to the service is so small, and that's what they're forcing. And I think mental health has gone that way. They will have spaces, but they'll be so limited and it'll go back to where Ben was saying, who shouts the loudest? Who's you know?
Speaker 1:So apart from the extreme cases who might get taken under hospital care. And that's why I see personally see mental health going. And that's why work that you're doing and things like that. Unfortunately, just like we're private practice, we shouldn't be needed. And just like you're a charity, you shouldn't be needed.
Speaker 1:And both of us are doing or all all five of us are doing the work we do because there's a massive need there, and there's a gap which is getting wider for those people who need support.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. And I think as that gap is getting wider, there are a lot of people that are falling into that gap. They're just and they struggle to get out because they're having to either wait so long. They're not quite sure where to turn. And you mentioned private practice to someone.
Stuart Bratt:Instantly, your head goes to that's gonna cost me $10.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:Mhmm. Seeing that there are actually affordable options. Yeah. And again, think it all comes down to education. Not saying that people are stupid, but if you don't know, you don't know.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. It's understanding that there are affordable options and different avenues to get that support rather than your five minute call with the GP that you had to book six months ago. And that's all you're getting.
Speaker 5:Yeah. One thing, Stuart. One thing we haven't really talked about why you're here. So what when it comes to what you do, your charity, what you provide, talk us a little bit through the process of what you can actually offer for people and what your charity does.
Stuart Bratt:We are straight off the bat we're a non clinical sort of support service basically. We offer weekly peer support groups for men. We've got men's groups, women's groups. We did have an LGBTQ plus group down in Basingstoke. Those facilitators are just taking a bit of time for themselves at the minute.
Stuart Bratt:And again, something I'm always quite passionate about, facilitators take priority over the group. And if they need to take their time, they're taking a break. But yeah, so we offer support groups. It's all on the website, than me trying to list every single one because it's different days, times, locations, but they're free. We always we're gone, Gary.
Stuart Bratt:Sorry, mate. You're fine.
Speaker 1:I was on mute. They'll all take a mic now because I'm technology. You know? It's not just in Birmingham then.
Stuart Bratt:No. No. It's all over. So where have we got? We've got one a 100 yards that way tonight, the Warleaf Group over the road from the office.
Stuart Bratt:We've got Basingstoke Men's Group. Worksworth in Derbyshire, we've got a men's and a women's group. We've got, it's currently expanding at RAF Shawbury. They set one up for people on the camp, but they're looking at opening that up to to everybody now because it's it's just it's at the hive, which is just off camp, so people don't need to sign on and stuff like that. We've got one all the way down in Bishop Stortford.
Stuart Bratt:So we we we're kind of we're spreading out, and we've got them all over. And they're free to attend. I mentioned before, there's no referral needed. There's no booking necessary. And if you want to rock up and just listen, there's no pressure to talk.
Stuart Bratt:The kettle's always on and the biscuit barrel's always full. So it's it's just that place. I said to be it's the pub without the beer. It's just somewhere to go and have that sense of belonging to have to listen to other people. And a lot of the time, you listen to other people.
Stuart Bratt:It's not to say, oh, at least I'm not as bad as them or I feel worse now because might have got this wrong with me or something. It's to understand that we're all going through something that is affecting us, and it's completely different for everybody. I had a great saying last week, one person's trauma is another person's Tuesday, and it it couldn't be more fitting for the support groups that you go in there and what you think is seemingly nothing. I put up with that four times a week. What's the problem?
Stuart Bratt:If it's affecting that person, it's affecting them and and vice versa. So it's really good environment to go and just talk and get things off your chest. We also do we've partnered up with Shout, the text service, so we offer a free twenty four hour text support service, which is unlike web chats and bots. It is a human volunteer, the other end of the phone. And the reason we went with text service is because you don't have to book a time.
Stuart Bratt:There's no chance of being overheard on the phone. I don't like ring I don't mind talking like this, but I don't like talking on the phone. Whereas a text, I'll sit there and text all day.
Speaker 1:Plus Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:You could be sat in the pub, you could be sat watching TV with your partner, and they've got no idea you're texting someone. It's it's that anonymous. So we've got that offer available. And when I say they're trained volunteers, I run a mental health charity, I instruct mental health first aid, suicide first aid, all of that. I've failed the training to become a volunteer.
Stuart Bratt:It's quite involved to actually become a volunteer trained volunteer for them. Cool. And then we do other things like public events.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm gonna say last time we spoke, which was a while ago, you were just getting delivery of your new van.
Stuart Bratt:Oh, yeah. That's don't see because I'm blurred in the background, but, yeah, that's at the car park, the tough truck. Yeah. So we go all over the place. We've got a converted transporter camper van, all sort of sign written up and everything, and we just plunk ourselves at every event possible and just get people to come and talk.
Stuart Bratt:And even I'm not into cars, but I see a big, shiny camper van with a massive bicep logo on the side. I'm gonna go and check it out, and we've hooked them in then. They can't get away. That's becoming probably one of our best avenues to support people. And the reason we went for the converge conversion was the seats and a table inside it.
Stuart Bratt:So when the rest of the world's outside of the event, we can shut the door, we can just have a chat with someone in private there and then rather than, oh, come a week on Tuesday or book a time in or something. You just we have that conversation. And then we've branched out into the Flaming Unicorns rugby team as well now, which started off as a joke. We just had one fundraiser and thought that worked. Let's let's see where we go from there.
Stuart Bratt:We've now got over a 175 players in the squad.
Speaker 1:Jesus.
Stuart Bratt:Raised over I think we're probably tipping $35 now raised for the charity. It's it's the charity's single biggest income stream, like, on its own as a fundraiser. And we just go from club to club, play a game of social rugby, and it was our in to get into those spaces. Because if you just said, oh, can we come and talk about mental health? Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:No. We don't do that, are you?
Speaker 1:There you go.
Stuart Bratt:Turn up with some flaming unicorn gangster rugby shirts. Can we come in for a game of rugby? Oh, yeah. That sounds fun. And then you talk about mental health afterwards.
Stuart Bratt:Everyone buys into it. So it's it's it's working well.
Speaker 1:I I guess when you're a rugby team, you you're you're the you're the scrum half. Yes?
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. Scrum half a winger.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. You look like it.
Stuart Bratt:I'll retire in soon because I am officially broken. The The military broke me, and then rugby broke me further. But, no, it's it's good fun. And as I say, it gets people talking. The offshoot of that has been the WhatsApp group, the players.
Stuart Bratt:Mhmm. But we just thought it'd be able to put the fixture on, and that's it. We've now implemented a life check. They're once a week, and they just put a score out of 10. Anything over four or five, then they say they're dealing with it or whatever.
Stuart Bratt:That's and you can just put your score or you can put your score in the reason why. Anyone four or under, unless they say, but I'm dealing with it, I don't need a reach out. We've now got 25 trained mental health first aiders in the group. If someone puts a score under four, someone reach out straight away. So that digital arm comes out, and it's become a it's a support group for a 175 people available twenty four hours a day.
Stuart Bratt:And it's nuts to think that it went from, I wanna stick a funky unicorn in a T shirt and play it's an excuse to play rugby and tell the missus, I'm working.
Speaker 1:Perfect. And you also got a summer ball coming up, haven't you?
Stuart Bratt:We have. Yeah. It's actually in, oh, three weeks' time. Yeah. Black tie ball.
Stuart Bratt:Again, just trying to find different ways of getting us out there to people trying to, one, raise a bit of money, but two, just getting people in a room and thanking them for their support. And again, I get to have a party and tell the missus I'm working.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:It's turned out alright.
Speaker 1:To finish off then, how can people either reach out for your services or support you?
Stuart Bratt:Either way, I'd say we're tough enough to care on all the social medias other than Twitter that we're tough care because tough enough to care is too big apparently. Or the website toughenoughtocare.org. All of our contact stuff's on there. So any support that you want or could give, you know, that you can contact us there through the either a mess private message or an email. And we're a small team.
Stuart Bratt:We've got lots and lots of volunteers. You know, we we wouldn't operate without our volunteers. It'd be impossible. There's only three of us that are full time, and you'll never be waiting more than a few hours for a reply. Because I think between myself and Alex, we sleep about three hours a day.
Stuart Bratt:So Yeah. Yeah. It's just get get in contact that way through the website, through social media, and there's always someone there that's willing to talk. And even if you're having to wait, you know, say, it was Tuesday today and you're the group group group closest to you was a Monday, we'll also help signpost people to other services within their area.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Stuart Bratt:Yeah. So they're not having to wait that full week or we'll support them until it comes around that they can get to a support group. So and I'll just say to anyone listening, if you've ever kind of teetered on, should I, shouldn't I reach out and talk to someone, the funniest thing in the world is watching a bloke kick himself after ten minutes of being in the support group because he didn't go in for six months because he's had to build up the courage. And all of a sudden, he's realized, I've missed out on six months of this. And it's not all sitting around in a circle and patting each other on the back.
Stuart Bratt:It is just a laugh. It's that sense of belonging and being there. You know, the Warleague lads, they have a biscuit competition. Who can bring the nicest biscuits? So why wouldn't you turn up to something like that?
Speaker 1:I'll be there. I don't need to come to the football group this time, but the biscuits that that would win every time.
Stuart Bratt:Sells it for me as well.
Speaker 4:Just Foxy's biscuits. They win every time on
Speaker 1:the website. Maybe. Maybe not. You know? We we could have a competition on Saturday when I see you.
Speaker 1:Stuart, we're gonna come to an end now. So I'd personally, we could run this podcast, in my opinion, for about two days, and we'd still have loads of conversation. I'm sure you've heard that lots before, but you're an amazing advocate for what we do, what you do, and you talk about it so passionately and so interestingly. So thank you for that. So thank you for me, guys.
Speaker 4:Thank thank you very much, Stuart. I I still have a million questions, as Gary said. But, yeah, thank you. It's been brilliant chatting with you.
Stuart Bratt:Fab. No. Thank you for having me on. I'll anyone that knows me, I'll tell you that I'll talk about this till the cows come home. I am yeah.
Stuart Bratt:I'm not very well educated in it, but I'm very passionate about it.
Speaker 5:It's been brilliant to have you, Stuart. Thank you again for coming on.
Speaker 3:Yep. Absolute pleasure to meet you, Stuart, and thanks again.
Speaker 1:And based on the fact that Peter's got a thousand more questions, maybe in a few months, you can come on and give us an update where you're going, and we can ask the rest of the questions we've got.
Stuart Bratt:Absolutely. I'm happy to
Speaker 1:do that. Maybe get Alex on as well, one of your team. Just, you know, be interested. So, you know, we'll stay in contact, and we'll also promote everything you do, Inspired Men Talk. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the podcast that proves men do talk.
Speaker 3:If you would like more information or support, then please visit inspiredtochange.biz,
Speaker 4:where you can learn more about us and the inspired to change team.
Speaker 5:And remember, the conversation continues on our social media at Inspired Mentor.
